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Joined: Dec 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 82 |
I just bought an original copy of the British Patent Office publication relating to Dickson & Murray's Patent No. 873 of 1882 entitled "Improvements in Self-cocking or 'Hammerless' Firearms", and which I thought might interest readers of this forum. Text of patent application Patent drawings << Broken link fixedDickson, gunmaker of Edinburgh, made a handful (27?) of 3-barrelled shotguns according to this patent. You've probably seen photos, but there's another one at: http://www.theshootingsociety.com/blog.html?start=10Now, bear with me over the next couple of paragraphs. The text of a patent specification is generally divided into three sections: the Abstract which is a very short outline of the invention; the main Specification which describes the invention in detail; and a set of numbered paragraphs called the Claims which, if push comes to shove (not sure what the US equivalent of that phrase is! ("if the ordure hits the air conditioning"?)) are the definitive list of what is covered by the patent. For a patent to be valid, its content must be novel (i.e. not publicised, patented, manufactured or otherwise in use before the date of the patent application) and the substance of the patent should not be 'obvious to someone skilled in the art'. As someone who has worked on the administrative side of the patent system for 20 of the last 28 years, Dickson's first claim doesn't look to be on very solid ground to me. It reads "A three-barrelled gun or fowling piece of the type which in double and single barrelled guns or rifles is commonly known as "hammerless" that is to say guns having hammers or tumblers contained within the lock-casing substantially as hereinbefore described and shewn in the accompanying drawings". Dickson might have been able to claim novelty for the detailed arrangement of his boxlock action, but neither hammerless guns nor three-barrelled guns (either with three barrels arranged in a row or in a triangular arrangement) were new in 1882. Looks like a classic case of 'claim everything and back off from claims you can't substantiate if challenged at a later date'! Nigel.
Last edited by Nigel; 01/28/12 05:37 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879 |
When touring the H & H factory about 3 years ago, I handled a 3 barrel 20 gauge. Gun did not feel as clumsy as I would have guessed. Wonder whose patent it was made under? They were having a bit of trouble sorting out the barrel selector and firing progression at that time.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879 |
When touring the H & H factory about 3 years ago, I handled a 3 barrel 20 gauge. Gun did not feel as clumsy as I would have guessed. Wonder whose patent it was made under? They were having a bit of trouble sorting out the barrel selector and firing progression at that time.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 82
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 82 |
Hi tudurgs,
I'm not sure that they would have had to acknowledge anyone else's patent. I don't think that Dickson could have enforced his patent as far as the 3-barrel aspect is concerned.
Whatever the patent situation I would love to handle one of Dickson's 3-barrels or Lancaster's 4-barrels.
Nigel.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 138
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 138 |
Nigel, I agree it's a bit thin.
My thoughts on this patent are simply John Dicksons attempt to improve and reinforce the specification he had already lodged (patent 294 of 1880 for bar slide cocking action, which would go on to used in the round-action).
Remember, Dickson had already found himself in court over the triggerplate design with a dispute with James Macnaughton and his 'Edinburgh' triggerplate design, also of 1880. Dickson won this round and rather than get into further troubles with his Edinburgh 'neighbour' he might want to strengthen his case.
However, there is one other element and that was the influence of Andrew Graham Murray. Mr. Murray was already a noted inventor, sportsman and a customer of Dicksons but at this time he was also a named Director of the company! It is believed that he influenced the construction of the three barrelled triggerplate design for one of his own fancies.
I agree that the number of manufactured three-barrelled Dicksons is in the region of 27 (some records are missing to confirm this exact number and how many actually survive today? I know of only 12) and examples of the side x side x side exist in 12, 16 and 20 bore. Two further exotic examples also exist, two barrels over one and one barrel over two (pyramid design?).
Cheers, J-PD
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050 |
Thanks for the links Nigel very interesting. The "patent drawings" link is not showing drawings. I have some photos somewhere of a similar SXSXS Dickson gun. I will see if I can find them.
Good Shooting T.C. The Green Isle
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 203
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 203 |
Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 01/27/12 05:54 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,136 Likes: 199
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,136 Likes: 199 |
I'll be running on down to the NRA museum Tuesday morning to get my fix of three barrel Lancasters, Parker Invincibles, and Whelen Springfields. I like Daryl's gun. Three triggers is the way to go.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050 |
Agree eightbore, "Three triggers is the way to go."
Good Shooting T.C. The Green Isle
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 203
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,272 Likes: 203 |
Birdog, that's some wonderful gun. For me at least, the third trigger is hard to "find" when starting with the front trigger. I found it a bit easier to start with the rear trigger, then go front to middle. A friend used the Morian on quail and got the first two out of a covey, but could not "find" the third trigger, although he had time to get the tripple and of course bragging rights.
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