doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Selling/shipping handgun (maybe a double ;)

I have no doubt that this subset of the ATF/FFL out of state transport/transfer saga has been addressed but I can't find the thread with it. Just the longarm info and the ATF FAQ that would seem to cover it BUT......

First a validation; This could involve a double (derringer) or revolver but the issue would remain the same since it is a handgun left out of state (and possibly returned).

I am in People's Republik of New Joisy and legally own a handgun that I might want to sell to someone in Wellesboro Pa.

I was there visiting a friend and left some guns for future use or possibly to be sold later. Guns are in the cases that I transported them in and stored in the back of his safe for now. He is not a currently a FFL (used to be and does some stock work and such on the side). I left a copy of my NJ Firearms ID (not FFL) and my driver's license for proof of ownership in case it was needed.

The FFL he currently uses now says that to transfer the handgun to him, or a local buyer, that I MUST be present and sign the forms in front of him. He also insists that if I want it returned to me that it can only be shipped FFL to FFL.

If I read the ATF FAQ correctly, with some leeway on what is transportation/shipping to/from someone for my own use, it does not need to be sent thru a FFL if returned to me since he has not formally transferred the gun from me.

His FFL also had previously insisted that I send my local FFL copy to him for him to accept it, even though it doesn't look like that to me.

Obviously I won't get his FFL to agree to anything outside of his comfort zone. The question now is can I legally have it shipped back to me directly from my friend as a gun that was left for my own use there or do I have to involve FFLs at both ends to get it back.
I can theoretically drive out there (about 9 hours round trip & $150 gas) to pick it up myself and bring it home?
Yes, I know that I should have worked this all out beforehand.

PM/email me if anyone lives out there and comes east or ????
What a PITA!

Thanks.

Lee,
If it is sent to your FFL will you need a new pistol permit to retrieve it? I realize it is your gun but the process might require it. Be careful.

Yes, am well aware of that which I want to avoid. That is why I left it there but not transferred to someone else (for "personal use" per ATF FAQ on shipping to someone & back for your own use).

The big problem at this point is that even if I wanted to, the FFL there will not transfer it to anyone to sell without me being there to physically sign off or have a NJ FFL send him a copy of his license. Right now I need to convince my friend (assuming I am correct) that he can ship it (IE return it per the previous "own use" at location other than home) since he doesn't want to do that because he is convinced that he must send via FFL to FFL.

If I can't confirm from active FFL and ATF regulations and possibly Pa state regulations also i am stuck in limbo unless I can spend the major bucks in gas/time to retrieve it.

Lee, I would pay close attention to builder's post.

OP, I would suggest you either find a different FFL on the PA side that will accept your documentation, or get in your vehicle and go pick it up.

Are you asking for someone to pick up your guns and bring them to you in NJ? Not a good idea.

JMO, but get in your car and go pick them up. Only thing worse than you getting in trouble is you getting someone else in trouble.

This is only a maybe, but consider whether or not the following is possible:

If your original transport over for your own use included a box suitable for shipping, have your agent put the items in such box. Meanwhile, go on UPS or similar and use a credit card to pay to obtain a shipping label from yourself at his address to yourself at your address. Fax it to your agent to be affixed to the box. Have your agent take the boxed items, which he has hopefully never touched to the appropriate depot.

You need to be the person who puts the shippable items in your agent's hands.

As if you had shipped guns to a shooting venue and then set them up to be returned to you, for example.

Otherwise, you have to go be your own agent and hop in the car.

No one with FFL responsibilities or sensibilities ought to do this for you with the current state of the law and enforcement.

Any sale by you as a resident of NJ outside that state is undoubtedly going to need to be handled by you and the FFL set up.

That is what I thought and was trying to confirm.

As to using a FFL to handle transfer on receiving end if I decided to sell it; Absolutely and never thought of doing otherwise. Question on that was more related to legal requirements specific to a handgun of having to use local FFL to send it to the receiving FFL as opposed to sending it myself to the transfer FFL for the a new buyer to complete transaction/NICS/etc.

Answer to that would appear to be that it is no different to shipping a longarm directly to out of state FFL for transfer to buyer (same as a rifle/shotgun as stated in ATF FAQ). I do understand that different common carriers have their own additional rules regarding the actual shipping of handgun and individual states/jurisdictions may impose even more restrictions (Especially NJ).

Obviously the specific FFL there has enhanced the rules for his own business. There are other FFLs in the immediate area so I should be able to find a more reasonable one who would obviously still follow all the rules if I someone out there wanted to buy it.
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