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It seems like there is a need for a just handicap system for scoring vintage shoots. You'd think the cylinder bore guys should get handicap points when compared to tighter chokes.

I notice the guys that win these friendly games are shooting JP Sauer or Elsie's choked Full in both.

Anyone thought about how to create scoring for vintage competitions that evens the odds? Wouldn't it make sense for the vintages to build a rules system so all vintage guns can compete on the merits of the shooter, not just picking a gun that's a ringer for the particular clay

Sincerely,

Sore loser
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I have read that some vintage shoots allow spreader loads.

Best,

Mike



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No handicap needed. whoever breaks the most targets wins. If you think you are are equipment disadvantaged, get the proper equipment. Period!

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You mean there are people who shoot vintage guns at clays and keep score?! How quaint...

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Originally Posted By: Rookhawk
It seems like there is a need for a just handicap system for scoring vintage shoots. You'd think the cylinder bore guys should get handicap points when compared to tighter chokes.

I notice the guys that win these friendly games are shooting JP Sauer or Elsie's choked Full in both.

Anyone thought about how to create scoring for vintage competitions that evens the odds? Wouldn't it make sense for the vintages to build a rules system so all vintage guns can compete on the merits of the shooter, not just picking a gun that's a ringer for the particular clay

Sincerely,

Sore loser smile


So, sore loser, you think that it is the full choked guns that are winning the shoots, eh? Not the shooter behind it? The reason those guns are winners is that the guys shooting them are better shots, and take the competition more seriously. Part of the seriousness is manifest in using guns with, what they consider, plenty of choke to break any target they may see. More of it is manifest in their dedication to practice and improving themselves so that they can take advantage of those tight chokes.

The same shooters winning many of these vintage shoots could, most likely, win them using a cylinder choked gun, IMO. That's because most of the target presentations are "soft", and not long targets needing lots of choke. Those who choose to use the tightly choked guns may handicap themselves, in a way, on these close targets. I compete in vintage shoots whenever I can, and choose to use tight chokes. If I miss a fast rabbit at 15 yards because my pattern is only 10" across, I accept it as shooter error.

I totally agree with Walt. If you want to win, get the equipment to do it with, and practice 'til you can. There is no shortage of suitable vintage guns out there to be had.

What you are asking for, a system to even the odds, is just a way of taking away the rewards from the man who put in the pain to get the gain.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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Hello Stan, I think you mostly wrong when you say---


So, sore loser, you think that it is the full choked guns that are winning the shoots, eh? Not the shooter behind it? The reason those guns are winners is that the guys shooting them are better shots, and take the competition more seriously. Part of the seriousness is manifest in using guns with, what they consider, plenty of choke to break any target they may see. More of it is manifest in their dedication to practice and improving themselves so that they can take advantage of those tight chokes.

Practice and practice and more practice will not beat being born with the gift. I have seen probably 10 or 12 shotgun shooters with the gift in my lifetime. No amount of practice can beat having the gift. The most recent young shooter with the gift is a young man named Grant. With very very little shooting experience he can hit just about everything. In April of 2011 Grant shot a perfect score of 30 out of 30 on the five stand used for the LCS vs Parker shoot in Sanford, NC. I have 45 years of practice and I am getting worse now not better. The gift is fading. If a shooter has some talent practice can help but practice will never beat the gift. By the way the gift applies to shooting 9 ball on a bar room pool table too.

Good Shooting To You, Jent

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Jent,

I know Grant Rosser, shot against him last fall at the Southern S x S Fall Classic at Georgetown. But, we will have to respectfully disagree, I guess. Of course, it's tough to beat being born with a gift of superior eye-hand coordination, but I'll take a less gifted man with tons of determination any day.

I'm 60 years old, and have been struggling hard to improve my clay shooting skills for 10-12 years now. I don't have the gift, but I am determined, and if you'll check the results of last years' Fall classic you'll see that the old man held his own pretty good against Grant. I hope we meet up again, maybe next month at Sanford. I love competing with the old guns!!!

Jon Truitt is another very skilled vintage sporting clays shooter, and a gentleman to boot. I was honored to shoot against them both.

SRH

P.S. Ever seen a natural born shooter win the Olympic Gold with just a gift? No, a young person with a great desire to win, and good eye-hand coordination, practices for years, shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds under coaching, attempting to perfect his/her skill. THEN, they win.


Last edited by Stan; 03/19/12 11:05 PM.

"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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Love ya, Stan.

I had no particular talent for flying either.

20,000 hours later, I can make an airplane sit up and talk.

Experience, determination, and sheer willpower beat born in talent.

In the long run.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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I apparently know so little (or shoot so poorly) I considered full choke guns to be a handicap shooting clays. I try not to shoot sporting clays with anything tighter than modified, the gun I have now is CYL/ IMP CYL.
CHA



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Hoof,

I consider full choke a handicap at sporting clays as well. The only time I shoot them is when I want to enter an event at a vintage shoot, for example the 16 ga. event, and the only vintage gun I have in 16 ga. is an Elsie with extra full chokes. my "go-to" chokes are mod/mod., but occasionally use less when it fits the course better.

It seems to me that as competitive s.c. shooters improve many of them graduate toward tighter chokes. There is a great confidence level that comes with turning clays into puff-balls with tighter chokes.

Different chokes for different fo'kes.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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