doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Soft primers?

I loaded up some 2 1/2" 12ga light loads for my Evans, the gun was so hard to open after firing, I could not believe it.
There were firing pin drag marks on the Win 209 primers.
I then loaded up same load with Fiocci primers and the problem vanished, no drag marks and the gun fell open.
Is this normal with WW 209s?
Mike

I have never had any problems with Winchester 209 primers in either Remington or Winchester hulls, 2 3/4" or 2 1/2".

I know that once you use Fiocci primers in your hulls, you will have to keep using them because they are .001 larger in diameter than Win or Rem 209.

What type of hulls were you using? Maybe the primers weren't seated all the way.

I've found that it is what it is; an unhappy marriage between gun, primer and other load components. Don't be too quick too condemn the primer. Meaning a change in powder/charge may result in that primer working just fine in that gun. Or that load may work just fine as is in another gun. I've seen instances where a demonstrably milder load makes a gun nearly impossible to open.

Sometimes you just have to be content that a primer swirch makes the problem disappear.

was the gun hard to close when loading the reloads?
I had some probs when I started reloading...my crimps weren't deep enough, so the crimp end of the shell was a wee bit wider than the rest,& nmust have been binding at the far end o the chamber.
These were harder to close the gun on, & much harder to extract/eject.
I soon fixed that prob, but just an idea from past experience.
I'm sure your a good loader, but no harm to mention it
good luck
franc

I have a Jules Bury high grade SLE that has non-rebounding hammers (I've been told it was an action intended as suitable for a smaller cal DR). It is sensitive to softer primers, WW209's being one, it seems. The gun had a visit to Otto Weis while I was living in Germany and the cocking bars are as tight as possible. Some years ago I shot successfully with Fed209's. Will be trying them again as soon as I get a box.

DDA

I've used Win 209s in everything from Parkers to Purdeys. And the ONLY brand of primer that has ever given me a problem is Win 209s.

I've had pierced primers, misfires, and angle-impact issues (as with hammer guns)

Fiocchi primers produce less pressure and never seem to give grief. They're also significantly cheaper.

Still, I like Win 209s.

Nothing wrong with the reloaded shells, Franc, dropped right in the gun and the gun closed easily, as I say, a change to Fiocci 209s cured the problem completely.
I loaded my first shotshell 55 years ago, a varnished paper Eley Grand Prix empty, 32 gr Greenbat powder, 2 felt wads, 1oz #6 shot, rolled turnover. Lovely patterns. Love the smell of the Eley varnish.

These were once fired 12 ga Federal Gold Medal paper hulls cut down.
JDW, thank you, thank you, I have said for years that the Fiocchi 209 primers are larger in diameter than Fed/Win 209 and have been shouted down and called an idiot, too.
Yes, now if I try to reload those hulls with Win 209s they will fall out as the primer hole is too big.
Fortunately I have a large quantity of Fiocci 209s and stock up every time I see them at gun shows.
Mike

Does anyone think that pressures were too low for Win 209s, and the fired primers were not slammed against the breech?.
I seem to remember light loads in 38 Special tying up the gun with soft primers.
Mike

WW 209 have always been soft (easy to dent) years ago CCI were the hardest. I use at least 10,000 primers a year and my only bad experience was Remington, many misfires. There answer was to give me the number one signal.

bill

My 28 gauge Uggie is very hard to open and shows drag marks with Factory AA's which use the Win209 primer.

No other factory ammo that I've shot, nor my reloads with Fiocchi 616 or Nobel Sport 686 primers are hard to open.

I won't buy any more factory AA's and since Nobel Sport primers are $89.50/5000 from my supplier I won't be buying any Win209 primers for reloading either.