doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com De-proofing a SxS?

I am just full odd ones this week. I came across a Belgium made shotgun that the proof marks on the watertable and the barrel flats have been stamped out. The choke markings are stamped out as well. The shotgun has been in Europe until 2006. Well used so it has been fired but why the de-proofing? Bore diameter alteration, chamber alteration or what? Thoughts?

In England a gun that fails reproof will have all it's original marks obliterated. The ones I have seen are just stamped over with a bunch of straight lines. So marked the gun cannot be sold--or not as a firearm. Other variations--I saw a Westley drop lock sold this week on Gunbroker that in reproof the "choke" had been stamped over but the gun passed reproof. Must have been honed to cylinder.

If memory serves, Joe, sometime ago you steered me away from a gun that had failed proof. I never would have noticed it. I learned something.....

If I'm not mistaken, I thought I read on here that guns that did not pass proof in England, the barrels were either cut or the barrels were not returned, because now it was useless and unsafe.
I could be wrong.

I am going to measure the chamber length, bore diameter and choke to see how the measure up. Now the shotgun had all the proof marks at one time, so it was saleable at one time. If a gunsmith had to hone the bores or change the choke could this make it out of proof? Now this is Belgium made, not English, but I wonder if they had similar laws. After measuring everything and it checks out this my have to be added to the collection. Like I need another one. Pictures to follow.

When the proof house rejects a gun and obliterates the proof marks it is usually because it has been submitted 2 or 3 times and keeps failing proof. It would fail proof because the barrels were rivelling, the action coming off face, or perhaps even cracking. You might want to check all those things before considering a purchase.The gun was probably dumped out of Britian or Europe because it was illegal for sale there.

A gun that has failed proof or become out of proof may have the marks "barred out" by the proof house so that the gun can be retuned to its owner ,as there is no law against owning or using an out of or unproofed gun . That is the responsibility of the owner . Barred out marks indicate that the guns is out of proofed and therfore can not be offerd for sale . Cut barrels are the only way an out of proof gun can be legaly sold allowing for the gun to be sleeved at some future date . There is also a case though rare when some older marks are barred out on submission for reproof , If for instance a old 3 inch gun had been sleeved and was rechambered at 2&3/4" the old 3" would be barred out to avoid confusion .

Here's proof.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=275340#Post275340

Before it was hacked it would've at least made a nice door stop....

Joe, that's the action of the Auction House rather than the Proof House. They can't legally sell a gun out of proof so they adverise it as 'Stock, Action & Forend' and the barrels can be sent to a registered gunsmith of your choice in order that they can be re-sleeved or just maybe cleaned up and re-submitted. If you want the barrels they will come cut. The Proof House will return a failed gun in whatever condition it was when it failed as it still belongs to the owner although he can't legally sell it, offer it for sale or export it.

That Boss looked as if it had really had it's day. That is quite often the case with some of the older high end guns. They were bought in the days of big bags of driven birds. The main shooting seasons run for 5 1/2 months of the years; starting with grouse, then partridge and then pheasant. Some of the owners of these guns would be out shooting four or five days a week in season and may fire hundreds of rounds in a day. Those guns had a hard life. Lagopus.....

and sadly too often put up wet....