doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting nitro loads in BP proof Damascus?

Greetings all,

I have a greener boxlock circa 1897, 12ga. 2 1/2" chambers, with either laminate or best figured 30" damascus barrels. Bores measure R.734" & L.735" and min. walls .027" in each except one thin spot 8" from muzzles on L outside which is .016" (probably a dent removed). Black powder proof with no re-proof.
Would you shoot modern nitro factory 2 1/2" shotshells out of it? Perhaps Gamebore F2's or B&P High pheasant? If not, what would you reccomend as the maximum pressure for nitro handloads?
My understanding is that these barrels should be in every way equal to or perhaps even superior to any fluid steel barrels from the same time period. I just need someone to agree or let me know I'm out to lunch! Thanks for any advice.

I personally think the Gamebores and for sure the B&P High Pheasant are too stiff for the old damascus...........just my opinion....other opinions around here will differ......

Light hand loads are best for any damascus IMO.....7,000 PSI or less IMO......especially with the wall thickness you mentioned.....

Damascus & Twist wrapped barrels all have SEAMS....Fluid Steel Barrels DO NOT.....there lies the difference mate, especially with age and any previous owners "handy-work" figured into the equation..........

The only references I have found for pressures indicate a 12ga from the blackpowder era probably didn't exceed 8000psi. Unfortunately, it is hard to say how they were measuring pressure then, probably with LUP. If I were certain my damascus barrels were sound, and could get a pressure value for the ammo you are citing indicating it is less than 8000psi I would likely shoot it. If you handload the pressures can be brought well below 8000psi. It is the pressure and the weight of the shot charges which have changed over the years. You could also submit it for Nitro Proof.

Thanks for your thoughts. To the best of my knowledge, the bores are original and could have been nitro proved (if so ordered) at the time they were made. I have data for loads around 8000 PSI but I'm having trouble locating recipies for loads less than that which do not require exotic components. Any suggestions?
Those photos certainly are concerning...

Lot of ifs here.

The bores are larger than 12 gauge, and may have been honed, any pitting?
.027 minimum wall thickness isn't bad, but you're talking nitro shells.
.016 is bad, although the location could be a lot worse.

Sounds like a nice gun, I wouldn't risk it. Might shoot black powder loads in it though.

Once you get used to cleaning it not such bad stuff.

Blue:
Try 16 grs. of Clays, 7/8 oz. of No. 6 and any one-piece wad designed for 7/8 oz. loads. Primer of your choice in a AA or STS hull.

Shot this for years. Easy on the gun and kills birds like a death ray. No worry in any reasonable Damascus barrel.

Why not just shoot black? End of concerns. In a smoothbore breech loader it probably cleans easier than nitro and in 2 1/2 in. cases you won't be giving up anything in performance.

Here are 2 sources:

The Lyman data is for a muzzle loader.




I would want a bore scope to see that thin spot. Make sure some fool did hone it.

Pete

IMR powders;PB and 7625 offer a wide range of very low pressure loads. I've been shooting them for years and they beat cleaning blk powder gunk out of your gun.

Great info. Thanks to all that have responded. I don't have the gun here to check the bores for the original proof size but will try to find out.
Pete- What would you be looking for at the thin spot? I understand that it is about an inch or so long in a isolated spot on the left side of the left bore.

I had never even considered using black powder loads. I have done a fair amount of reloading with nitro, including PB, Longshot, Int. Clays. All of the loads being at 8000PSI or less. Forgive my ignorance but can you handload black powder in modern cases? There is no chance, near as I can tell, in finding commercial black powder loads in Canada. Commercial nitro loads in 2.5" are hard enough.