doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fox Info...

An annual membership in the A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. is $30. That includes one card look up. Additional look- ups are $25. Members who are on-line can request a look-up in the members forum, pay with pay-pal and will receive a jpeg of the card via email usually within 24 hours. Less than half of our members are on-line, and they can request by mail and receive a photocopy. We do not have the original production cards!! Some individuals talked their way into the archives at Savage Arms Corp. back in 1991, and photocopied the fronts of the graded gun cards, and probably the backs of no more than 10% of the cards. A few years ago the AHFCA received one of these photocopy sets from one of these individuals. Keep in mind these were production cards that followed the gun through the factory as it was being built. Some are oil soaked and dark. Others are faded and hard to read. Sometimes the card was filled in by someone with a very legible had and just as often not. Then consider that what we have is a photocopy of the faces of ten cards per page. The photocopy certainly wasn't optimized for each indigidual card. Therefore, we provide a jpeg or copy to the member. While we will, when requested, give an opinion as to what we think the card says, we (the board of the AHFCA) are not responsible for interpretation.

Now, speaking for myself, I don't believe that board members having ready access to these records is that big a deal, as we have yet to have a single viable nomination to run against any of us for a board position. My term is up next year, so come on!! Submit a viable nomination and run against me for this great deal we have.

Dave Noreen, Founding Board Member and Editor of the A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. Newsletter.

Sometimes the info on the cards is incorrect or incomplete also. I once bought two Fox guns that the previous owner had requested letters on. Both were 12 guns. One was an AE grade and the letter said the card was lost. The other said the gun was a Sterlingworth 2nd. However the "Sterlingworth" was engraved to at least the C level, had ejectors and a straight grip stock and extra length forend of highly figured wood. Numbers match on the gun, stock, forend and straight tang trigger guard. All work appeared to be factory done. The frame was not marked with a grade stamp. How such a piece came to be is only speculation, since it appears to be factory work, but doesn't match the card.

Mr. Martin,

Could you please post some photos of your 12 ga Sterlingworth with special factory engraving, wood, etc. Sounds like an interesting Fox.

It should be noted too that it seems that the later the gun, the less the available information, especially with Sterlingworths. I sent for a letter on my Sterly 16ga, and while it's a neat thing to have, it's really just a restating of the catalog info and specs, nothing at all specific to my gun. I never bothered to get a letter on my other two.

You have "Savage" Sterly's F2F, Savage stopped most of the Sterlingworth record keeping after their purchase of Fox........

Pre-1930 "Fox Built" Sterlingworth letters are somewhat detailed and make a worthwhile framed addition to any collection IMO.......

The Sterlingworth cards are mostly pretty bleak, and imho for 90% of common Sterlingworths a letter isn't worth $30.



On the other hand, in the case of this 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworth Ejector DeLuxe both the original production card and a Fox-Special card survived in the records --





Most of the surviving cards are the original production card as the gun was built. Very few of the Fox-Special cards used when a "built for stock" gun was modified to fill an order have survived.

I guess just some owners like to know the factory barrel length, factory choking, stock measurements, approximate weight as the gun left the factory......and the factory shipping date and to who it was shipped in most cases.........which allows someone to buy and own an "unaltered" gun........

I agree that the Cody Firearms museum is a much more detailed informative source than the AH Fox Collectors.......I sometimes wish they had all the manufacturing records for U.S. sporting arms companies now long gone, not just for Winchester, Marlin, L.C. Smith and some others......most of their records are in original factory ledger form and more informative IMO..... they are super nice people to work with as well and always available for phone calls ......

Cody sends their factory letters out in a full size 9" X 10.5" envelope backed by cardboard which arrives unfoiled, not folded in a letter envelope with creases like the Fox people.......

Some folks don't care about records, details and alterations......some do......

As Fin2Feather said, most of what one gets in a Callahan letter on a Sterlingworth is a regurgitation of the catalogue listing. Sterlingworth 12-gauge 30-inch weights, in reality, vary far more than the 7 1/2 to 7 3/4 pounds given in the Philadelphia catalogues. Number 119467, card shown above, is original butt plate to muzzle and weighs just a shade over 7 pounds. Likewise, sometimes, as on the cards shown above, the chokes are penciled in, but just as often they are not, and what you get is that the catalogue says a Sterlingworth Standard was full and full. Throughout the Philadelphia years the Sterlingworth Standard was catalogued as full and full. Beginning with the 1931 Savage produced A.H. Fox catalogue The Fox-Sterlingworth Standard is catalogued as modified and full. More often than not, the Savage historian often doesn't take that fact into account in his canned Sterlingworth letter. Again, the stock measurements are not on Sterlingworth cards so you get what is in the catalogues, and it was my experience that Roe Clark never took into account the fact that during the Philadelphia years the Sterlingworth Field and Brush came with 3-inch drop-at-heel while the Standard and Trap came with 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel, but beginning with the first Savage produced A.H. Fox catalogue all four were listed with 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel. Roe missed this fact with two letters on very late Fox-Sterlingworth Brush guns for me.

As for Cody, what more information could they provide than is on the cards? Just 'cause you put bad information in a fancy letter doesn't make it any better.

Again, imho, the real rip-off in "letters" is Colt. $100 for a letter on my 1883 and it says the stock is "wood" and the finish is "blue". The only thing blue on the gun is the trigger guard, top lever and butt plate screws. Their form letter is obviously oriented to their hand guns.

I own three Philadelphia Sterlingworths, a 12 gauge, a 16 gauge and a 20 gauge....(1929, 1925, 1926).......all three letter with dimensions that match the guns at present........and to whom they were shipped with a date.....

All three are choked modified and full and letter as such..... All three still sport the factory butt plate and match the letter wood dimensions given.....so I guess I didn't get any 'Sterlingworth catalog' information form letters of which you speak........

Sorry, I don't own or want any Savage built guns.....

As far as Cody goes, as a member, one has access to work sheets for pre-buy confirmation on any gun they have records on....confirming dimensions etc.....before you buy the gun.....I don't consider Cody's information bad whatsoever......

The Sterlingworth was the entry-level gun, built to "stock" dimensions and specifications with any variation being extra cost. Hence, it is safe to assume that over 90% left the factory matching the catalogue description.