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xausa Offline OP
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While waiting for the definitive word from Germany, I will pose this question to the forum:
I have a pre-War Greifelt drilling in 16/60/16/60/7X57R. New England Custom Guns decided that the barrel walls are too thin to allow for rechambering to 16/70. I have some Brenneke rifled slug shells for another drilling, and although they are marked 70mm, in fact they measure 59.5mm. The difference presumably is a result of the 10mm of plastic case turned down over the Brenneke projectile, which presumably opens the length of the fired case to 70mm.

My question is twofold:
(1) Is it safe to fire the cartridges in my drilling in their present condition?
(2) What if I were to cut off the very end of the unfired cartridge, creating a situation where the turn down would now be an unattached sleeve, which presumably would be forced out the muzzle by the projectile?

I assume the purpose of this fold is to keep the projectile in place while subjected to the recoil force created by the other barrel firing, but how necessary is this?

The obvious answer to these questions could be obtained experimentally I'm sure, but the price and scarcity of pre-War drillings and Brennese ammunition being what they are, I would just as soon have an authoritative answer from a respected source,

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xausa,
your drilling should be 16/65 not 16/60.The best thing to do would be to wait a bit and maybe find 65mm Brennekes.Maybe you could find some old RWS 67.5mm Brennekes,they were advertised for 65mm and 70mm chambers.
Mark, do you have anything to add?
Mike

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Originally Posted By: Der Ami
xausa,
your drilling should be 16/65 not 16/60.The best thing to do would be to wait a bit and maybe find 65mm Brennekes.Maybe you could find some old RWS 67.5mm Brennekes,they were advertised for 65mm and 70mm chambers.
Mark, do you have anything to add?
Mike


Those should be announced any time now. Per this thread, http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=278300#Post278300

Quote:
... per Brenneke USA you can expect to see an "official" announcement from Brenneke sometime in November saying that they are targeting the first quarter of 2013 for the re-introduction of the Brenneke classic 16/67.5 patent Brenneke slug (2 1/2") to the United States market. ....


So, let's see when they make their announcement....


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Gents,

This is what I was told five days ago by the firm that represents Brenneke USA:

We are trying to bring in the components on the first container in 2013 box has been designed, item number established

I'm sorry but in our last exchange of e-mails I did not ask if Brenneke USA was still going to making their "official" announcement in November. It does look like we're going to be seeing the 65mm 16ga cartridges in production sometime in the first part of next year though which is something I'm really looking forward to.

Once the container arrives with all of the components and the boxes (5 cartridges each) it's just a matter of scheduling the first run. I've been told that the actual production setup is pretty easy. The next step will be to get them out to their distributors and from there they will go to the many dealers that will be carrying them.

Regards,

Mark

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Xausa: The roll-crimped area is not just to keep the slug in the hull. It has the same significance as any other crimp, and we know that a weak crimp results in less velocity. It holds it for that micro-second while the proper pressure builds. I also don't like the thought of unattached things going down the barrel, but that's just my opinion.
If you have access to another 70mm chambered gun, fire one and then measure the hull. Roll crimps are not as long as fold crimps. You might be OK, but I would measure to be sure. It is possible to trim cases and then roll crimp your own. This is probably the best bet, as you can then also adjust the pressure and velocity of the projectile. MEC, for example, makes a "short kit" for their loaders. Hope you enjoy your drilling! Steve

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Really, while a roll crimp in most cases is shorter than a fold crimp, in slugs I often see roll crimps much longer than in shotshells. What is the length of the crimp? That is, the distance between the front end of the shell and the front end of the bullet? If, as I suspect, it is about 10 mm, then a following option is available: unfold the crimp (that'll be easier if the end of the case is heated SLIGHTLY using a SAFE source, e.g., holding the shell against a light bulb), trim the case to 65 mm and roll-crimp it back. steve white above is right about the significance of the crimp for the quality of the shot, but I think in this case a crimp of 2.5 mm (5 mm / 2) will be quite enough for a quality shot, and if it results in slightly lesser pressure - so much the better for the old gun! In fact, the pressure developed by modern 70 mm shells (especially if loaded to American specifications) would be a bigger concern to me than the length of the shell. A still better option for you could be to research a safe load for your drilling (preferably using the same powder your shells are loaded with), disassemble the shells and reload them with a safe charge of powder into trimmed shells. That's a lot of bother, but, in light of the scarcity of prewar drillings that you've noted...

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If one reloads this is an easy fix. Actually, you don't even need any reloading equipment. Brass hulls of 2 1/2 in. are readily available from several sources as are the proper wads. I don't know if Brenneke type slugs are available for reloading but I believe round balls are and I know 16 bore round ball molds are avaialable as I just bought one. For round balls I suppose it will depend on your chokes as to whether or not they would be satisfactory.


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I think the big point here is that through some coaxing by our freind Buchseman, Brenneke USA has been convinced that a market exists here in the USA for for the 16 65mm slug with the proper regulation loading for the vintage guns. This is very good news as all of us who shoot these guns know of how hard & expensive the old factory ammo has been to get. To have this available by a dealer here in new loaded ammo to proper specs for the old guns is great news indeed!

m-4

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Originally Posted By: m-4
I think the big point here is that through some coaxing by our freind Buchseman, Brenneke USA has been convinced that a market exists here in the USA for for the 16 65mm slug with the proper regulation loading for the vintage guns. This is very good news as all of us who shoot these guns know of how hard & expensive the old factory ammo has been to get. To have this available by a dealer here in new loaded ammo to proper specs for the old guns is great news indeed!

m-4


+1

Hear, hear.


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Originally Posted By: m-4
I think the big point here is that through some coaxing by our freind Buchseman, Brenneke USA has been convinced that a market exists here in the USA for for the 16 65mm slug with the proper regulation loading for the vintage guns. This is very good news as all of us who shoot these guns know of how hard & expensive the old factory ammo has been to get. To have this available by a dealer here in new loaded ammo to proper specs for the old guns is great news indeed!

m-4


I'll certainly agree with that! Once available I'm going to try some in one of my drillings.


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