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Joined: Nov 2006
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Sidelock
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Researcher,
You are correct. However, I have a catalog from Defiance that was obviously printed in Syracuse with Syracuse on the cover but overstamped with "Removed to Defiance, Ohio" over the Syracuse.

They were in deep financial trouble and could not afford a totally new catalog. That wopuld explain the differences between catlog cuts and known guns produced at the various locations.

We have not seen another gun with more than one Company name marked on that given gun.
Could barrels have been made after the frame was milled at the end of the run of the company? Possibly.

Would an out of sequence Syracuse marked Optimus frame have been mated with barrels marked with the Ohio company name? Over Uncle Dan's dead body. Since he died less than 1 year after the termination of the Defiance operation, I suppose that is a remote possibility. That would be the only explanation that I could place on a gun with several "mistakes" of Optimus quality leaving the Lefever factory while Dan was still alive.

Shortly after you visited us at the Lefever tables in Las Vegas last month we were visited by a well known stock maker who admitted that he restocked multiple upgraded guns for Tom Gibbons. Many of these guns, such as the one in question, have surfaced from time to time. If somebody wants them as an example of a modern upgrade of a classic gun, so be it. If somebody is offering these guns as original Lefever Optimus guns, shame on them.

Last edited by DrBob; 02/09/13 08:23 PM.

Great-Great Grandson of D.M. Lefever
www.lefevercollectors.com
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Somewhere there is a Fox collector that was sold a 20 ga Fox HE, sn. 202125 by the man in Pa. When he bought the gun from me it had seen many duck hunts in the Illinois river bottoms above Peoria. Saw it in gun list several months later as virtually unfired at $17,500.

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JB32 Offline OP
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Sidelock

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Whitworth "wheat" stamps do look suspect compared to known originals ...... IMHO !?!?

Be Safe All, Jimmy B.

Joined: Feb 2009
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Boxlock
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I see the gun is properly described
as Upgraded, recreated now on Julia's
Site!!

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Congratulations to Julia's this time.
I can only wonder what they would have done if we hadn't brought it to their attention.

Last edited by DrBob; 02/16/13 05:20 PM.

Great-Great Grandson of D.M. Lefever
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I would quit wondering because we all know what they would have, or would not have done!


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Gentlemen, As a final comment on the 16, "Beware the 20". SFQ

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Anyone want to hazard a guess who did the upgrade? It certainly shows the skill is still with us.


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Boxlock
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Sfg correctly states that there is another exact duplicate of
this 16ga Optimus out there in 20 gauge.
I saw pictures and it passed hands at the Vegas show a
couple of years ago.

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If in fact, this isn't an "Original Optimus", and that it has been upgrades/enhanced, what would be a fair price for this shotgun?

In my opinion it is still a very attractive gun, and I would enjoy hunting with it, even knowing its artifical origin and checkered past. A talented engraver spent many hours on this "upgrade." That alone might cost $5k or $10K.

Is there a general guideline: that it would now be worth 10% or 20% of a true original?

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