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Aug 5th, 2016
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Condor Offline OP
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I just got my H&H Royal 12 back from repair from Turnbull though New England Custom Gun. The barrel hook had become loose and it was reblued....I took some time which I had not before to look at the barrels closely. This gun was made in 1896 and a hammer gun. It was resold by H & H to another owner in 1899. I have the history with weapon history letter and copy of the ledger pages directly from H & H...I noticed a mark on the barrels which had been sleeved at some point as can be seen from the proof marks. My question, and have no other H & H to compare nor can I find it in a book on H & H I have is , would anyone know or came across the initial marks in over laid script..I think E L...see photo...the E L is followed by the number 18..I think.. And is on both undersides of the barrels.......any help or educated guess would be helpful so I can make note of it in my records...thank you...








Last edited by Condor; 03/12/13 02:41 PM.
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Condor Offline OP
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Here is the gun.

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Belgian provisional proof mark . The gun was sleeved with Belgian made tubes .

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Condor Offline OP
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Thanks ! Just googled it and that's the answer...

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Condor Offline OP
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Just one more question....there appears to be later Birmingham proof marks from 1954 to 1980 's....is it fair to say that the barrels were sleeved in Begium or from Begium.....and later reproofed in UK....would this have been a less expensive tube than going back to H & H ?...just trying to close some loose ends if possible. The rib on top looks to be the H & H original and the serial numbers on the barrels are consistent with others elsewhere on the gun..


Last edited by Condor; 03/12/13 03:42 PM.
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If Turnbull got his hands on this gun, there will be angst in your future.

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Condor Offline OP
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What does that mean?

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The gun was almost certainly sleeved in the UK . Many people actively involved in sleeving at that time did not bother which proof house it was sent to , later some discriminated and sent london guns to London and Birmingham guns to Birmingham . If it had been sleeved in London it would have had london proof . As Webley and Scott were the only people making tubes in any quantity and demand outstripped production and costs had risen tubes were sourced from other suppliers ,Falla {?} and Delcour from belgium Verney Carron in France although these were much lighter than a lot of users wanted and from Italy .Spanish tubes were regarded as less desirable . Holland at the time had a "down" on sleeving and engraved the joints ,also their price would have been prohibitive . Belgians as far as I know did not get into sleeving in a big way as we did in Britain ,so there would have been no point in sending it there .
As it was compulsary at the time this gun was sleeved to have barrels provisonaly proofed the acceptable Belgian marks have been left visable ,later when this requirement was abandoned the marks may have been turned to be inside the ribs or struck off if not to deep .

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Thank you Gun, for the education....appreciate it.


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