doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Age of Midland

I have a Midland Boxlock, S/N 56464. It is a #2 gun with gold inlaid 2 on the action, barrel and forearm, the initial shield is gold and shows a Rampant Lion( heraldry sites put this as being Scots royalty) as I was told by the seller. The steel barrels are 30" and choked .10 and .44, typical boring for up close and way far. English stocked in marbled walnut, splinter forearm, double triggers,automatic safety, and ejectors. The engraving is a sparse line chain pattern with Midland in a banner. I bought this from a fellow who called this gun a "Harding" and said it was a 1938 build. I understand that Midland's records have been destroyed so I have no idea it's actual age. There obviously is a good story somewhere about a Scot royal who would be so cheap as to have his guns be built in Birmingham and box locks to boot. I have a knowledgeable friend who collects British guns and said that that were more #2 guns built than actual pairs, so that the owner would show up at the grouse butts and say " As my #1 gun is in the shop, I'll just shoot my #2 gun and will not require the services (or pay for) of a loader". Sounds just like a Scot. Any idea? I don't think photos would be of much help as this is a pretty normal BLE, though superbly balanced and a gun I really enjoy shooting. Thanks for what ever help you can render, Mike

While not the exact year this might be of interest....



click the link to see all the catalogue.

http://s1069.photobucket.com/user/oldfarmer2/library/?sort=3&page=1

John

mice cross, a title does not automatically mean high income. Between the wars, Britain was particularly full of aristocrats balancing on the edge of bankruptcy but struggling to maintain the accustomed lifestyle, check out 3rd season of Downton Abbey, for instance.

I liked the story about the #2 guns, thanks for sharing!

Mike

A Lion Rampant in heraldry is used by many nationalities and families from all corners of the British Isles. Indeed the English football (soccer) team wear a badge of three lions. The lion is, I believe, the most commonly depicted animal in heraldry so the assumption that there is a Scottish connection to your gun is not necessarily correct.

I was amused by your friends story concerning why there are more No 2 guns. I had not heard it before. I suspect it is more anecdotal than actual! Besides, it is clear that No 1 guns tend to get used more often and therefore wear out quicker than their pair does.

The IGC gives the following information on the Midland Gun Co:

Midland Gun Company
76 Bath Street
80 & 81 Bath Street
Price Street
Demon Gun Works, 77 Bath Street
Demon Gun Works, 76 & 77 Bath Street
10 Bailey Street
74 Whittall Street
Birmingham
Gun, rifle & pistol makers
55 & 56 Price Street, Birmingham; 127 Cleethorpes Road, Grimsby, Lincolnshire; Unknown address in London.
1888-1964

The Midland Gun Company was founded in 1888 by Joseph Lightwood of Court, 16 Bath Street. All the Lightwood family, about 15 of them, were outworkers in the Birmingham gun trade, stockers, finishers, action filers and gun implement makers. In the late 1880s the larger gun making firms such a P Webley & Son, W & C Scott and Westley Richards were producing the bulk of Birmingham's guns. The smaller gun makers and outworkers did not have the expertise to market their products and services and found it difficult to compete with mass production. In 1888 Joseph was one of the first in the gun trade to produce a catalogue, as opposed to brochures and pamphlets, of the products the Lightwoods made or could supply from other trade makers. They established the Midland Gun Company.

The Midland Gun Co was recorded in 1889 at 76 Bath Street, They may have had additional premises in Price Street. These and some subsequent changes of address may reflect changes of the principal offices of the company rather than actual acquisition and disposal of premises. Joseph, the father, was recorded in the 1891 census living with his wife and two daughters. In previous censuses he had described himself as a gun stocker then as a gun action filer, but in this census he described himself as a gun manufacturer so he considered himself on or near the same social level as makers like the Scotts, Webleys, and Westley Richards. Joseph died in 1896 and the company was reportedly bought by H Ludlow England who in that year also bought Holloway's shareholding in Holloway & Naughton. It is not known who or how many Lightwoods were employed by the company. In about 1897 the principal offices moved to 80 & 81 Bath Street, but the 76 Bath Street premises appear to have been retained. By 1900 Joseph, the son, appears to have returned to his former business as an outworker.

Frank W Lightwood (b.1875) was the youngest son of William Lightwood, a gun implement maker in Birmingham. The 1901 census records him living at Bellevue, Ballifeary Road, Inverness, Scotland, with his wife, Ada (b.1873 in Hitchin, Hertfordshire) and his mother-in-law, Esther (b.1850 in Hitchin). Unusually and somewhat grandly he described himself as a small arms gun maker which suggests that he had been and perhaps was still employed by the Midland Gun Co, possibly to find customers for Midland products in Scotland. Frank may have ceased being directly employed by the Midland Gun Co and became an agent because from about 1909 to about 1922 he was recorded as a gun and rifle maker at 12 Market Place, Brigg, Lincolnshire (see George Hockey, Charles Leonard, John Lofley and Lincolnshire Gun & Ammunition Co). In the 1911 census he was recorded as a gun maker living at 12 Market Place with his wife and mother-in-law, but he seems to have had a close relationship with the Midland Gun Co and may have loaded cartridges for them. Both Frank W Lightwood and Midland Gun Co sold a cartridge under the name "Four Best". In 1913 Frank (sometimes incorrectly recorded as Frederick W Lightwood) opened a branch at 122a Cleethorpe Road, Grimsby, Lincolnshire. The Midland Gun Co had a branch at 127 Cleethorpe Road from about 1909 and Frank may have been involved in this (see Frank W Lightwood). Grimsby had been a major whaling port where other gun makers had established offices to promote their harpoon guns, but this may not have been the reason for Midland's Grimsby premises. Both of Frank Lightwood's shops in Brigg and Market Rasen closed in about 1922. Frank died in 1925 but who took over his business is not known.

In about 1903 the principal offices of the Midland Gun Co moved to Price Street but in 1909 returned to 77 Bath Street and it seems that by this time the factory was called the "Demon Gun Works"; the company had adopted a naked male demon as its logo (engraved on the butt plates which were sometimes made of pierced steel), they applied the name "Demon" to their top grades of guns and cartridges. In 1928 the company's address was 76 & 77 Bath Street, and at about this time the company had an office in London where they sold a wide range of guns, pistols and shooting equipment made by British and foreign manufacturers. They had a small wholesale export market, and they made components e.g. actions for the trade. In 1941 the principal offices moved to 10 Bailey Street, Birmingham, possibly because of wartime bomb damage, but in 1942 these moved to 74 Whittall Street. In 1952, the company, then a shadow of its former self, was bought by Parker-Hale. In 1959 the Bath Street premises were given up and the company's only address was 74 Whittall Street. In 1962 the Midland division of Parker-Hale, as in then was, moved to 55 & 56 Price Street, it closed in 1964. At this time the manager of the Midland division was Harold King who left to establish his own business in Birmingham. Some reports say that Parker-Hale continued to use the Midland name on its guns up to about 1970.

The company sold cartridges under the names "Best of All", "Demon", "Double Demon" (a steel-lined pigeon cartridge), "Edward", "Jubilee", "Keeper", "Keeper High Velocity", "Perfect Smokeless", "Perfection Smokeless", "Rabbit Special Smokeless", "Record", Record Brand", "Sudden Death". In addition, the Lincolnshire branch loaded a 12 bore cartridge under the name "Four Best"(as did Frank W Lightwood of Brigg, Lincolnshire). The company also loaded U.M.C. Remington cartridges (post 1915).

The models of shotgun listed in the 1930 catalogue included the following hammerguns: the "Defiance", the "Demon", the "Excelsior", the "Farmer", the "Keeper", the "Perfection", the "Pioneer", the "Quicksure", the "Rabbit", the "Sudden Death" and the "Very". Boxlock guns included the "Demon", the "Farmer", the "Favourite", the "Featherweight", the "Formidable", the "Invincible", the "Triumph", the "Twentyfive", and the "Victrix". Sidelock guns included the "Dreadnought", and the "Supreme".

I also looked up Harding on the IGC. There were a couple listed for Birmingham but not for the correct timeframe. Amongst others in London and the provinces I found Harding Bros Ltd of Hereford, gun dealers during the early part of the 1900s. I wondered if they had perhaps retailed your gun to the first owner?

Tim

trw999, it's not three lions but three leopards on the England football badge. Why they refere to themselves as the 'Lions' is a misnomer.

As you rightly say the Lion Rampant can appear on many coats of arms. I have a wolf's head baying to crescent moon on mine. Might be vampires in the family! The Scottish Royalty bit was good salesmanship I think.

It looks like a high number on the Midland Gun so would likely be around the late 30's. There should be a Proof House code letter on the barrel proof marks somewhere. Look for a small crossed sceptre mark which will contain a number; usually a 1,2 or 3 and one or two small letters. This will give the year it passed through the Proof House. If you can read it I should be able to interpret it. Lagopus.....

Mike , through up some pic's man.
You mention Marbled wood, is the stock original do you think ?
I remember a way back article in the Double Gun Journal on Midland,they had a pic' of one of their best SLE Guns, & how the guy who owned it had it in a Purdey labeled case n fooled more than a few.I'd like to get a nice example of a good Birmingham BL,
though I've always fancied a G E Lewis light (7lb)duck gun for clays
I love the story about buying the one gun & having it marked #2, that's priceless...just so funny it could be true.
Let us have gander, eh?
Cheers
franc

Thank you for the responses. As to proof marks on the barrel flats all I see are two BP, BV and NP under crowns, "Nitro Proof", "Choke", 1 1/8, 13/1, 13/1, two squares with 12 over C in each square at cross angles. The water table shows two BV under crowns. Otherwise the gun does not have many marks and the ones there are seem self evident.

I forgot to add that the gun does sport a hidden third fastener.

The proof marks on your gun indicate that it was proof tested some time between 1925-1954.The 13/1 indicates that the bore diameter at proof,measured between .719 and .728 diameter.
12/C indicates 2 1/2 inch chambers. Maximum shot load for this gun is 1 1/8 ozs; corresponding safe breech pressure is 6720 p.s.i.maximum.
I have a pre 1900 Midland catalogue, in this era all Midland box locks illustrated have a Greener cross bolt. Their most expensive box lock in this catalogue was priced at 20 pounds stirling.
Ownership of crests can some times be traced using the book ,Fairburns Crests.

Am I missing something? Safe breech pressure for a nitro proof in that time period was only 6720 psi? I have no knowledge otherwise, but was just surprised it was that low.

If chamber length is not marked on the gun, then I'd date it 1904-25 rather than 25-54. After 1925, the chamber length would have been marked. (Good way to differentiate between 1904-25 and 1925-54 guns.) The 12 over C mark does not mean 2 1/2" chambers. Rather, it means chambers shorter than 3". Guns with 3" chambers were marked 12 over LC.