doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 28 ga Darne

How rare/valuable would a 28ga Darne be in the U.S. ?

24 ga. are rare, 28 ga. are out there if you look. I tried one a couple years ago and found it was ultra light like a wand. Unfortunate for me there was no magic in it for me. The stock was also scaled for the gun and felt like a tooth pick in my hands. On the plus side it was one beautiful looking gun and I suspect you could carry it forever and not get tired.

Depending on grade 30 day sale period $2,000 $3,800 They are all pretty much tooth picks. 12 gauage are around 6 lbs. or under

You have a few rather sweeping generalizations going here, don't 'cha think? To wit, the R16 magnum 12 that was my demonstrator gun for a decade was about 7 3/4 lbs. I also custom ordered a 20 gauge gun that was not to weigh less than 7 lbs, per the customer, and it didn't.

Most people didn't spec them heavy, but, a few did.

The prices you list above wouldn't include 20 or 28 gauge guns, of any grade, by the importers who were involved during the Bruchet era, or anything pre-war. Darne production quality varied from superb to so-so, depending on the era one is speaking of. Anything that has been in production from the 1880s, until, say, now, will have some variations in quality. Are you trying to tell us that a post WWII Halifax 28 gauge would be worth $2000, and a Bruchet VHS, in 28 gauge, engraved in the style of "fond crux" with platinum and gold inlay, would be worth $3800?

The last 28 gauge Halifax I heard of went for $4000.

I imported the guns for a decade, and just based on the original question and the information posted, I couldn't hazard a guess to the answer of value.

How can you?


Best,
Ted

http://www.gunsinternational.com/DARNE-V19-28GA.cfm?gun_id=100371421

http://www.gunsinternational.com/DARNE-2...un_id=100282632

Two on Gunsinternational V-19 asking price 6500, R13 asking price 4450.

Price depends on grade, condition, features and whether you need to sell it or just want to list it forever like some dealers seem to like doing. Both of the above guns have been listed for a very long time. Seller has the right to list a gun at any price he wants and keep it there forever if they want. But asking price does not establish the real selling price and until a gun sells the asking price is just a starting point.

A 28 Darne may be a fairly rare item but it will be much harder to sell than a 28 in Parker, Ithaca NID, LC Smith or even an original Model 12 in 28ga.. Collector interest and even shooters interest will give those guns a much broader market. It was explained to me that Darnes are an acquired taste like unsweetened tea.

I like unsweetened tea!
My expertise comes from owning two 12's one 20 and one 16 gauge Darne.
I only retain the 16 gauge but any of the Darne's I have owned would do the job and have ranged from 6#'s 4oz to 5# 12oz.
The 16 is a custom Bruchet Darne Ted ordered for me and is a cut above the earlier models with an unusual double trigger system.
The 28's usually were of the higher grades but as Ted points out, there isn't enough information given in the Original Post to make any valuation.-Dick

KY Jon,
Simply because a gun is listed on the internet doesn't mean it is still for sale-case in point, the R13 in 28 gauge. Since there (were) only two available, not of the same grade, now only one, it isn't really going to count as comparison shopping, either.
The R13 has been gone (sold) a while. I don't know why the ads stay up for so long.
That gun is a good example of differing levels of quality in Darnes. The serial number put it in 1950s production, and it had no importers name on it. Compare the wood on it to just about anything imported with the name "Firearms Center" on it. Much of the James Wayne stuff has wood the color of a stick of butter. The engraving was sparse, exactly how an R13 should be, but, well executed.
The V19 started at $11,500, came down to $7500, and is now listed at $6500. It has a non-factory pad installed, something that seems to make many guns just a little harder to sell. It probably fits a lot more people now with the pad installed.
The last confirmed price I have for the sale of a 28 gauge V19 was last summer, a like new 70s production gun that went for $6500. I never saw the gun, but, I know who bought it-he is not a dummy, and I'll bet the gun was worth every penny. The last 28 gauge V19 I imported was just a few bucks short of $10,000, with a leather case.
I had a well known gun writer (not Larry) send me a short email a few years past asking what a widows V19 was worth. I emailed back I couldn't tell him without more information, which, seemed to annoy him greatly. But, there are just too many variables on Darnes. I wouldn't attempt to place a value on a model 12 without seeing it, why does someone think you could do that with a Darne? The first thing I want to know is what is the name of the importer, if there is one, on the gun. That gives you a start, and then you can begin to appraise quality of engraving, build, and wood. A Darne that was sold with extras, like the Bretell Darne, a case, or a second set of barrels is a pretty rare find. For some reason, nobody ever seemed to keep the box or the directions that came with them, either. People buying a second hand gun like that stuff, and will usually pay more money for it.

Best,
Ted

Ted, I love to watch you imitating "Dancing with the Stars", but could you be a little more specific? What importers brought in bad Darnes, which brought in better Darnes? What era of manufacture is good, which is not so good?

Murph, I'm going to enjoy keeping you in suspense. But, I'll post a bit of what I've learned, later.


Best,
Ted

My opinion of rank among the various eras and importers of Darne guns:
1.The guns produced by Bruchet are the top of the list. The importers include Geoffroy Gournet, The Drumming Stump, Inc, and Loren Thomas Ltd. The guns will be marked Darne, or Bruchet. These were typically full custom guns, built to order, from an era when the price was secondary to quality. The engraving that adorns a typical R15 from the Bruchet era is a style called Rosace, and it covers 100% of the guns action. To see a Bruchet era R15, engraved by Ariel Recrux, Guy Ripamonte, or Pitiuet (Bruchet guns R15 and higher are typically engraver signed) compared to a James Wayne era R15 is to begin to understand why price can vary so widely on the same model of gun. My opinion is that nobody had the skill to use the two story barrel boring machine to polish the barrel bores lengthwise like Paul Bruchet did, and I would give a nod to guns produced while he was still in charge of the company, pre 1997, or so.
2.Guns built between 1900 and about 1935, which I lump into a group I call "pre-war". This was an era when labor was cheaper than materials, and the engraving and wood could be spectacular. An example of a gun produced in this era is the V22 advertised by Galazon. I'd like to see the barrel flats of the gun, as I suspect the gun may actually be a V20, as that model was always game scene engraved. Many dealers have no idea what grade of gun they have, or call them higher than they actually are, because few customers have any idea what they are looking at. The problem with this era is the odd stock dimensions sometimes seen, short chambers, and tight bores and chokes. The bore IS the choke in a Darne, and just opening up the last few inches usually doesn't change pattern very much.
3. Guns built post war, and not typically having an importers name on them. You have to start paying close attention in this group, although wonderful examples do exist. The 1950s were hard times in France, and there was plenty of upheaval in the firearms industry.
4. Stoeger imports. They imported and cataloged the guns for almost a decade, 1964-1973, and the stuff brought in earlier was typically much better than later offerings. One usually got a plastic buttplate, as that was most expedient, but, there would have been many options available from the factory. They were trying to inventory guns to sell right now, and although other grades and myriad different options were available from the factory, they typically stocked R10s (BIrdhunter) R15s, (Pheasant Hunter Deluxe) and V19s (Quail Hunter Supreme) in the shorter, 25 1/2" barrel lengths that were all the rage in that era, with a semi-pistol stock. There was a definite effort to sell what they had in stock as opposed to getting what one wanted, and although I am told it was possible to order a custom gun from Stoeger, I am just as sure very few people ever did.
5. The guns imported by James Wayne, under the name FIrearms Center Inc, in Victoria TX. There exists a lot of not well fitted and bland wood and uninspired engraving in guns that were imported in the era of 1973-1978 by this outfit.

There are guns that break the rules. I owned a V20 that was produced in 1910 that had gamescene engraving of pheasants that more resembled space invaders of some sort, and caused me to wonder what year the pheasant was introduced to France. The gun was signed "Bernaud" and was accurately dated by his lousy (at the time) engraving, because he was quite elderly in 1910, and still working, and not doing his typical work. I'd bet there are some James Wayne guns that are nicely stocked and engraved-but I haven't seen any. And one thing I haven't seen is poor quality metal smithing of a gun, regardless of era-they all seem to work pretty dang good and lock up tight no matter how lousy the decoration and wood might be.

There are other things to know, like, this list ONLY applies to guns marked Darne with the typical D that has a styled tail that goes around the name, any other name on the gun, or a gun with block letters on the opening lever spelling DARNE falls under a different set of rules, but, this is what you get for free. I'm not going to go into grading a Darne, as enough has been written about that subject that if you get sold an R13 by a dealer who tells you it is a V21, you are an idiot, and deserve it. That wasn't always the case, but, times have changed. I still enjoy getting calls from excited folk who have stumbled onto, or, inherited a really neat gun and they want to know a little more about it, and are genuinely interested in their old sliding breech gun. So, feel free. I'm in the book.

Best,
Ted