doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Eduard Kettner 9x58R Double Rifle - Need Info

How do you set both triggers at once? I've never had this happen to me but I didn't know it was possible so tell me more.

Hello oldmanriver,

As you can see in the photo above, each trigger has a small screw for adjusting the "set-sear" engagement. When you pull the triggers normal, each trigger has about 4 to 5 pounds of pull.

To "set" the triggers, you push them "forward" and they "click" in place. The "set-sear" locks them forward about 1/8". Now when you touch the triggers, they have only 4 to 5 "ounces" of pull.

The whole idea of a set trigger is that if you have a lot of time, to take careful aim, (say at a longer than typical distance) a "hair" trigger eliminates much of the "gun wiggle" that comes from pulling a heavier trigger.

I have another German double that also has a "set" trigger, but it only has one, the front trigger for the right barrel.

Apparently with this Kettner, the idea is to "set" the front trigger, shoot the right barrel, then "set" the rear trigger, and shoot the left barrel - one at a time - and NOT to set both at once.

Buckstix:

I'm glad I'm not the only guy to have done that with double set triggers (German guild .250-3000 double rifle). Even with 100 grain bullets, it's not pleasant.

Rem

What bullet are you using?
I think it is a semipspitzer jacketed?
.358 inches?
I have both the 358318 and the 358009 moulds

For jacketed, I like these for better bore contact

http://www.hornady.com/store/35-Cal-.358-200-gr-RN/

Mike

Hello skeettx,

As my target shows, I used the 200g Horn SP. (spire point) I'll be testing other Hornady bullets, 220g FP and 250g RN, later this week. I don't care to use lead bullets in this rifle.

THANKS
Good luck with the load development
I consider this the most fun part of
getting a new rifle
Mike

TRIM AND SLIM - CLASSIC DOUBLE RIFLES WITH SEXY LINES

Double rifles are considered to be weapons for dangerous game only, even though they offer numerous advantages for stalking and hunting from a stand, too. Max Ern explains how you can get a trim and slim one.

Picture caption: Double rifle by Jules Bury, Liege, circa 1930, in .35 Winchester, English stock, weighs 3.35 kg. Bury was one of the most prominent gunmakers in his time. HIs double rifles are much sought-after today.

There are few hunting guns about which more myths and legends exist than classic double rifles. The books on the subject fill whole shelves. From the books you can learn about their general properties, and use this knowledge to best advantage to make a weighted, sensible purchase of a double rifle.

As the era of the black powder ended, it became - because of the more powerful Nitro powders - possible to build double rifles which had higher performance but were considerably lighter. Previously, double rifles were used mostly as life preservers when hunting dangerous game. The idea was to combine two independent guns in one. The resulting high weight helped to decrease the considerable recoil. In our latitudes, a boar and deer hunter could well use a quick second shot. But the effective big-game calibers began at 11.5 or 12 millimeter, and so blackpowder double rifles naturally were too heavy.

With the development of the new smokeless powders the bullet diameter could be reduced to 8 - 9 millimeter without loss of performance. Meanwhile, gunmakers in Belgium and Suhl developed new double rifles to fit the new calibers. In Belgium, with its extended big game haunts in Ardennes and the neighboring Eiffel region, hunters were especially eager to use the possibilities of the new weapons. One who is familiar with these regions knows that in most of these places only driven hunts are possible. A hunter would spend all day on foot, with the gun carried in hand or on a sling for eight to ten hours. Often the vegetation is so thick, that there is no time to reload a repeater to make a follow-up shot.

Most of the double rifles there were built in 8x60R, .35 Winchester, 9x57R and .405 Winchester. Characteristic for these rifles were telescopic sights, Anson&Deeley action with ejectors and Greener crossbolt. These guns were a perfect alternative to shotguns, widely used for driven hunts before, which they are almost identical to in looks and feel, and to this day are unrivalled under certain conditions.

Picture caption: A double rifle in 10.3x60R Grison. Weighing only 3.3 kg, it's a pointy weapon in a classic round.

The 'light' 9-mm cartridges are perfectly suitable for driven hunts, and their moderate recoil does not have much impact on shooting. These 'medium' cartridges do their job with less danger for the local population and don't spoil meat much. The weight of these double rifles is less than all but the lightest repeaters. Until the second world war the light double rifles were in much vogue. During the subsequent changes in political landscape, the Belgians remained practical as suppliers. More and more rifles were ordered in 9.3x74R at the time, and that mean the end for the light double rifles.

Their design, in the true sense, was not meant for these heavy calibers, and the heavy recoil made shooting uncomfortable. Also, tons of excess military bolt-actions were unloaded on the market to be converted to true hunting repeating weapons.

Picture caption: Simple action, strong breech and reliable lockup - the Bury and the 10.3x60R side by side.

From today's perspective, these light double rifles are still highly usable. Driven hunts are the order of the day, and repeaters are often but a compromise. Two quick consecutive shots, without interruption of the aim, are an unquestionable advantage. As a rule of thumb, four shots out of an ejector double are as quick as four shots out of a magazine rifle.

Interestingly, for all the innovation that the hunting trails have seen lately, the choice of cartridges suitable for double rifles is even more limited than before. The 9.3 mm rounds were designed for safaris and are ideal only for the toughest hoofed animals, thus having a limited applicability. Our service cartridge, 8x57IRS is optimal for a light double rifle. Even better is the no longer mass produced 9x57R. With this round, modern compound 13 gr. bullets can be loaded to almost 9.3x74 velocities at lower pressures and shows good penetration without excessive damage to the meat.

Choosing one of these or similar cartridges, the hunter gets not only a rifle suitable for the autumn driven hunts, but also a perfect companion for the roe deer hunting. Who hasn't wished for a quick second shot when the buck starts off right at the moment of fire? On a stand or stalk, the noticeably shorter length of the weapon makes it much more maneuverable .

In addition, modern ejectors can be switched off to get rid of that annoying click when loading. Also, double rifles, due to their ability to "hold the road", that is, their low height of the action and the wide grip on the forearm are perfect for quick snap shots.

A technical advantage of the hammerless double rifles is the great force which can be transferred by leverage of the opening barrels. This force is used to compress powerful leaf springs used for the ignition of the cartridges. The V-shaped leaf springs are compressed only by three or four millimeter and apply their force very closely to the pivot point of the striker. This results in an uncommonly quick and powerful ignition.

Picture Caption: In order not to interfere with the functionality of the iron sights, special scope mounts are used, which due to their low height do not affect the line of sight. In this case the intrusion over the top rib does not exceed four millimeter. The annoying rear sight does not exist.

The measurements of the speed of ignition (in milliseconds) available to us show considerable differences between various lock systems. Mannlicher Schoenauer GK: 7,6 ms, Mauser M98: 6.3 ms, a falling block rifle with double coil springs: 5.1 ms. By contrast, the fastest sidelock was as quick as 2.3 ms, and various Anson-Deeley actions showed ignition times from 2.8 to 3.2 ms.

These figures of speak for themselves. When shooting at a moving dangerous game the delay in ignition is not substantial, but for shooting offhand from a standing position they are of considerable meaning. For example, even the effect of one's heartbeat on the steadiness of one's hand when aiming can lead to considerable deviation. Everybody knows how problematic it can be to make a clean shot when one has to shoot from a standing position offhand.

There is another situation when short ignition timing is important. When you take a shot at over 80 meter in a familiar wood, with your sight on an animal you've been hunting for a long time, your hand can't afford to tremble. Most hunters will just let loose at a running deer, and here the above-mentioned ignition times will be of vital importance for a quick shot. Also, the systems with leaf springs remain reliable when the gun gets a little dirty.

The lock and the caliber are, however, only one side of the medal. Like with shotguns, the stock dimensions make up a great part of a perfect gun. And the component of increased recoil comes into play here. Recoil shouldn't affect the shooter. The best system in the world is no good if the hunter looses the sight of the animal for a moment after the first shot, or has to correct the mount. It is important that the gun allows itself to be stopped and set into motion quickly.

This is the first thing that one should bear in mind as the most important factor in a double rifle. Perfect command of the weapon is essential for clean and quick shooting. Most will only say "No problem".

A point which today for various reasons goes unnoticed is the correct ergonomics of the grip. When one holds the gun at port arms, that is, across the body, with the muzzle lowered, the thumb must embrace the pistol grip completely so as to touch the tip of the middle finger. The gun then will be held safely and firmly. Then comes the moment when you have to shoot.

When shouldering the gun, the hand shouldn't change its position on the pistol grip. In the shooting position the grip must be held even firmer with the closed hand, without pressing the middle finger uncomfortably against the trigger guard. It is not possible to shoulder the gun like this correctly, it will be tilted. If the pistol grip pushes on the palm, then something isn't right. If the front sight moves to the right and up from its proper position in the rear sight when the gun is shouldered, than something surely isn't right. You don't want this to happen right at the moment when you must take the shot.

This is exactly where the secret lies. The short length of the double rifle actions, boxlocks and sidelocks alike, makes it possible to build the pistol grip with the perfect design. It should be emphasized, that we are not talking about custom stocks here. Only when these criteria are met, will the old double rifle come to the shoulder as if it has grown there - without any discomfort. After the first shot , the second trigger must be found without opening the hand.

Picture caption: "A double rifle must have waist and hips". Beautiful to behold are its wide breech-end of barrels, which put the weight in the middle, and trim gracefully forwards. This gun is fitted with raising top rib.

Curved buttplates help the buttstock to always find the same location at the shoulder, which ensures regularity in shooting. With the right stock dimensions, the eye and the sighting line will be aligned when the gun is shouldered, which is a great advantage when hunting. Actually, Robert Churchill, British gunmaker, once made a bet that he could shoot and hit clay pigeons with a double rifle. He had a perfectly fitted .22 lr built, and didn't only win the bet once, but was able to repeat the performance a few times afterwards.

The full-length sighting ribs give the double rifles discussed here particularly slim and elegant looks. These ribs, which provide valuable support to the eye, can be made only if the rifles are in a certain caliber range, otherwise there's the risk that the full-length ribs will make the barrels too heavy.
The correct balance should be born in mind from the earliest stages of manufacturing stage. That is why heavy guns with full-length ribs are being made. The right weight distribution is especially important for double rifles - the weight should, if possible, be concentrated near the center of gravity, this will make the gun 'snappy'. Otherwise, you'd get the impression that you're shouldering a crowbar rather than a rifle, or the gun will be too slow to move.

A variety of the top rib is the rising rib with folding rear sight. From the breech to the rear sight the rib is raising gently, and then slopes down to the front sight, so that to remain invisible. Thus it is possible to shoot with the rear sight folded, aiming with the front sight over the rib like a shotgun. The rear sight is raised only for long shots. Munch in Aachen, the firm famous for their battue guns, fits almost all their double rifles, side-by-side and over-under alike, with these sights. For shooting at short range, in dense woods, such sights just can't be beat.

In any case, when buying a double rifle, think carefully. If you draw you bow too far with the caliber choice, or stride away from the golden middle in terms of the rear sight heights, the results almost every time will be mediocre.

Considered with reason and chosen wisely, a double rifle will be a versatile and timelessly beautiful hunting gun, which with proper care, can be passed on to future generations, and still impress them with its Spartan lines, performance and aesthetics. A friend of mine, a Professor of Architecture, offered a good point once: "If it is well-designed, it can't be ugly". An ejector double rifle is a weapon of no compromise. If perfectly fitted to its owner, it is superior to most other designs of hunting guns.

So, that's what I ended up with. I admit the job proved harder than I thougt, and I'm still not sure if I get everything right - especially the two paragraphs about the importance of quick lock times for quick shooting. But I tried to do my best.

Humpty Dumpty,

great work, brilliant translation, my compliments!!!

Best Regards,
Gunwolf

Well done in the translation, thanks for the posting
Mike