doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rib relay questions/supplies

I want to try my hand at a rib relay. What can I say I like to tinker. I wont be trying this on anything valuable or shoot able so don't panic I have an old junk set of barrels that I've already removed the ribs on. I've read numerous posts and viewed Dr. Gaddys picture trail about the process. I guess what im looking for is someone who has done this and could exactly tell me what solder/flux/supplies he used. I understand I need to tin with acid flux and acid core solder. Then flux with rosin flux and rosin core solder. Not only what products to use but where to get them. I've found places on line who maybe have one of the things I'll need but not the other. I also don't need 5 lbs of solder like some of the suppliers have.

Again im just looking for someone who has done this successfully, not necessarily professionally, who can point me towards the right products to use.
You can pm me or email at vince174@comcastdotnet.

Thanks

Vince

ChuckH is your man. I am sure he will be along to guide you. He has a great tutorial on it.

SRH

Vince,
Going by memory, my list included soft steel wire (bailing wire) from a local hardware store, 60/40 (or 63/37) solder from same store or any electronics store. My hardware store had acid and rosin flux. I also bought a foot of 1/2" round steel (or aluminum) bar for wiring the rib, as well as some 1" by 1/4" flat aluminum (or steel) bar for wiring the lower rib. (see my pix on Drew's Picture Trail. I used some ScotchBrite pads and dishsoap to scrub the acid flux residue off.

You'll need a propane torch larger than the typical bottle mounted torch heads found at hardware stores or you'll struggle to get enough heat into the assembly to solder it. I'm sure you can use an oxy-acetylene welding torch, but you'll have to be careful with overheating.

You'll need a couple bars of metal that are straight to use as a twist sighting reference. You lay them across both barrel apex's, one near the muzzle and one nearer the mid point, to see the twist and correct it once wired tightly. You may want to cut notches in the bars for the top rib to clear or simply do this on the bottom of the barrels. I think I used some bars approx 1/2" square by 8" long. But I forget. The pix on Drew's site show this process, I think.

You'll want a flux brush or stick of some kind. I found that the plastic and bristle brushes simply burned up. A wire brush made like an acid brush worked for me.

I used a bench vice to clamp up the lump with soft jaws.

have fun
Chuck

Instructions from Chuck, Dewey & Dr Gaddy
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18691676

I use aluminum square rod for the top & bottom ribs to hold in place. You can get a way with steel but the chance of soldering it into place is also there if you get carried away with fluxing.

Instead of the wire method,,I use small C clamps to hold things together. The square rod makes for easier clampng than round stock and holds the ribs just as well.

I never had good luck with the twisted wire method & tapered nails. It works great, most use the method. Just not for me.
Over heated wire twists stretching out of shape when the tapered nail is supposed to tighten the assembly, ect. I know,,don't over heat them, but it's bound to happen. They sit in the open like a stove coil.

Make sure the bbl spacers are in place before replacing the ribs. They will allow evn side clamping of the tubes.
Keep track of where the spacers are in side so you can place the side clamps at those locations.
Don't over do the pressure on these or any of them for that matter.
Also clamp the forend hook in place so that doesn't move on you.

I tin the ribs with a simple electric soldering gun. Easy, clean and quick. Flux the rib surfaces first,,load up the point on the gun and you can tin quite a few inches of rib in one quick slide before reloading the tip w/solder.
I even found you can do most of the bbl surfaces with one. From around the forend hook back, they get a bit too heavy to tin with the pistol grip WEN soldering gun. But the rest is done quickly and evenly.

I use lead/tin solder. The greenie tin/silver soft solder is stronger but it doesn't tin the surfaces as easy IMO. Plus it stays bright white unlike lead solder that oxidizes to dark grey.
Any solder line stays forever like a white hairline thread along the bbl lenght with it.
For flux I use regular No-Corrode paste. Nothing fancy. Acid flux is great and I use it occasionally for some jobs. But the extra cleanup isn't necessary with the paste,,,and I've seen the nasty aftermath of acid flux if the clean-up isn't done well.


Level the bbls with a simple set of parallels as stated above. Level the bbls from below,,then also level the rib on top. Both may need adjusting. An eyeball last look isn't a bad idea.
I use a couple old parallel files for the job.

Start the soldering job from the breech. That's where the most heat will be needed. I use a propane (bottled) torch. It does take a while to get it up to heat but it will do the job. The last thing you want is to over heat it. Work towards the muzzle.
Also if you start from the muzzle, the rib will expand from the heat and by the time you reach the breech end there may be a bow in it w/o enough room for it to lay down flat and tuck nicely into the short rib. It's all soldered down behind you now so you're stuck taking it off again. Same with the bottom rib up against the forend hook.

I place the bbls horizontal on one wooden peg in the bench vise. They fit fairly tight on that peg but I can still rotate them to work at any angle/top/bottom as I need to. I turn them by grabbing onto the bbl lug w/a padded pliers made for that.
Some heavy sets I place another plug in the muzzle of the same tube and it's supported by a simple T-rest standing on the floor. Makes for a solid work stand.

Lots of different ways to do the job. You'll find what works best and easiest for you as you go along.
Take your time while you work. Solder doesn't go bad while working with it as long as you don't over heat it. Everything should be clean to start with of course.

Thanks for the replies guys. This is all good information. So from reading the comments so far I have a couple points to clarify.

1) You guys use the same 60/40 solder to tin the bbls and ribs as you do for the actual joining of everything back together ? So I would need just one type of solder ?

2) Is the acid flux absolutely necessary to tin with ? If I use acid flux I know I'll have to clean it up but Kutter apparently uses something that requires no clean up ?

I'm probably confused more with the various types of fluxes and solders then anything else. I think my skills are such that from following the directions on the picture trail and others directions I'm hoping for reasonable results.

So besides the wire and/or clamps and various other items, I'll need just regular 60/40 solder (no flux core in it) and either acid flux and rosin flux or some other type of flux that will work for both tinning and joining ?

Sorry for all the "basic" type questions. I'm just trying to make sure I'm using the right stuff for when I give this a shot.

Vince

You can make rosin flux with the rosin Brownell's carries mixed into solution with acetone till it won't take anymore rosin. If you can get a machinist clamp. or make one with 3/8" round stock to go in the muzzles to help line things up. However you clamp the barrels together you need to be able to take up the slack as the tinned parts melt together. MAP gas can be useful. The more extra solder you feed in the more you may have to scrape off to clean the joints for blacking. As you are practicing, take your time and realize you can do it again. Double check that the bottom rib is straight. If you use wedges have the top opposite of the bottom. I have better luck having the top rib and barrels wired up then flip it over to put the bottom rib last. That's all the things I can think of right now I have learned the hard way. Later, MKII

I have used any number of types of solder with equal success. I have found the resin flux purchased at the hardware store is too thin for the heat you will generate. I also use aluminum square stock to support the barrels on one end (in a vise) and an outfeed roler (for table saw) covered with leather to support the other end. It is just handy, solid and adjustable for height. I have successfully used the cut nails (tapered) and bailing wire but I think the above ideas in that regard are better than my technique. Get lots of solder in when doing the final part and plan on spending the whole weekend cleaning up--the shop and the barrels. (You'll have fun, I'm sure.)
Mark's thoughts on checking for alignment of the ribs before you start the final heat is totally valid too. Invariably, I have to go back and re-set a portion of one rib.

Please check your Pm's

Vince

Not being facetious, but look into ribless barrels too.

Scots maker Alex Martin specialised in ribless SXSs. In addition to the finer balance, no hidden crevices to collect rust, ribless barrels have another advantage: they avoid all of the above problems.

Just a thought.