doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC model 21

So does it cost 20 grand more to make the SxS ? I might pay 10g for a 21 SxS Grand American CSMC but I for damn sure ain't paying 30g. I also am not interested in the O/U at all.

Last time I Iooked, 'base' price on a CSMC Grand American was $24,500USD.
A Winchester M21 Grand American will be upwards of $40,000USD but you do get two sets of barrels. Collectors fuel that market but CSMC actual cost and what CSMC sells for to stay in business also contributes to the market.

As to this statement " Eightbore, and I am a player in the game, just like you. If you want to buy a POS from CSMC be my guest. When it comes to Winchester Model 21's I will stick with the real McCoy and NOT one of their reproductions and esp an O/U so called Model 21, thank you."

What's a "player"?

As to "POS", how many Winchester M21's and how many CSMC M21's have you examined?
I first met Tony in the early 90's andclosely examined his M21's at the time and since then have loooked at every one I could get my hands on. I also have examined many many Winchester M21's in the last 20 years.
None of the CSMC M21's could be termed a "POS" and most of the Winchester M21's were not a "POS".
Don't bring in engravers to the discussion. This is today and the best engravers of the 20th century are gone, if you want an Urich or a Gough, then be prepared to pay a premium price. Tony uses some of the best engravers in the world on his Foxes, M21's, Galazan's and Parker's.
I have an RBL 20, An A-10 American 20/28 Rose & Scroll set, A CSMC Fox DE Grade 16, and a CSMC M21 'baby frame' 28 gauge Grand American.
My personal opinion is, that none of them are a "POS".
How many CSMC branded shotguns have you examined to lable them "POS"?
In any event, it's marketing regarding the CSMC M21 o/u and the base gun looks attractive. The debate of whether a CSMC M21 is a M21 or a CSMC Fox is a Fox continues but only in the minds of a few who inhabit these Forums. The people who have the monetary resources to purchase these guns and want an outstanding product have made thier minds up.
My last four doubles have come from CSMC and I don't look anyplace else for a new bespoke shotgun. CSMC are people I can actually talk to and meet to discuss the particulars. None of thier shotguns are a "POS".-Dick

We are all entitled to our opinions. I have a very NASTY taste in my mouth after a gun 'deal' with your buddies. If you choose to trust them and do business with them, well then that's your prerogative. Likewise, it's my prerogative to NEVER again spend one red cent with them. I will spend my money elsewhere and you can do with yours ( and 8bore too) whatever you want. In fact buy 9 or 10 of those O/U Model 21 Rizzini's Grand Americans and we will see what they are worth 10 yrs from now. I'm guessing you will be VERY disappointed.

Maybe I have just been plain lucky but my absolute best "stand behind your product" has been CSMC. They have gone so far beyond what is expected that I will be a lifelong customer of theirs with absolute confidence in their products and their support services. Lou is my contact there and I am sure many of you also know him well.

Many of you buy Rolex watches or their equivalents. How much more do you think it costs to make a Rolex vs. a Seiko? So why do you buy it?

I asked a very simple question which you choose to ignore.
Again, I ask the same question, what is a "player"?

No one at CSMC is my 'buddy'.

Frankly, I find your Posts in this Thread, simplistic, without any substance and vindictive because you had a bad experience, commonly termed 'bashing'.
I never addressed the resale value of a CSMC M21 o/u nor said I was going to purchase one but only addressed the statements you made about CSMC from my personal experience.
EOT for me.-Dick

Well, this is EOT for me too. First, let's address what a 'player' is. A Player As far as I'm concerned is one who plays in the gun buying world. I have a safe full of nice shotguns and a rather high insurance premium, so I guess that would constitute being a player. As far as being simplistic and evasive, I wish I could tell my story about CSMC but in a public forum I think it is best to keep that part private. 'How many Model 21's have I examined'? Well, I have owned more than 10. I currently have a custom shop 'custom' grade 20 b and a Grade IV 2 barrel set 20b with A carved wood. I almost got taken on a 'Winchester Custom Grade' .410 which did not letter with Cody and it turned out to be a gun that had 'Winchester' on it and Winchester proof marks. Whew.....that was a close call; but in reality it wasn't even a CSMC reproduction. I'm guessing it was some sort of forgery. Not sure who made it, it was a very nice gun, but nevertheless a forgery. How many CSMC guns have you examined to label them POS? Several, but I try to buy only Winchester made Model 21's. And yes, I do have a terrible taste in my mouth over the one and only gun deal I had with them.......and you would too.

Somebody help me out here. I know I am not the only one asking himself what the heck is"POS and EOT". Thanks!

Buddy, Google is a good first stop for just about any info. Enter POS and EOT and you'll find these among the results.

Jay

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pos

http://www.internetslang.com/EOT-meaning-definition.asp

Buddy, since you are a friend, I will tell you that we are talking "piece of sh*t", and "end of thread". End of thread is usually kind of a presumptuous command from a little fellow for anyone posting on a thread to stop doing it. Of course, Dick is on our side on this "Tony bashing" business, so he is only using the EOT acronym to describe his action of bailing out. Personally, I think Dick should stay on here to duke it out with the Tony bashers. He has spent as much money with CSMC as you have. He's a pretty nice guy who moderated the Model 21 website. Bill Murphy

Both guns have a stock and a forearm, not much different than each other, both guns are engraved with gold inlays, one has an over and under barrel and one has a side by side barrel -- all I was asking was why there would be a $20,000. difference in price? No answer to my question yet.