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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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All,
Just acquired a nice Lefever 20 ga. and have a couple of questions. Usually the Grade is marked to the right of the Serial # on the water table. However, this gun has no grade stamped on it. From the engraving it is either an H or a G and my guess is a G given the approximate date of manufacturer. It is in the serial # range of 712XX. Puts the gun at about 1913 if the estimates are fairly accurate. Additionally, there is a weep hole slightly ahead of the forend lug on the barrels. Did Lefever use weep holes when they rust blued? Thanks - Doublenut


Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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TTT - Any help would be appreciated


Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

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Sidelock
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No way to help without photos. That high serial number might be during the "assemble from on hand parts" era after the sale to Ithaca. That made grade identification even more difficult than usual.

In late guns, an H usually has no scene engraving while a G would usually have a dog. Both would usually have pull off fore ends. Either could be ejector.

If it has a rib extension rather than a dolls head, it is more likely to be a DS/I than an H. Many of the later made 20s seem to be of that grade.

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Sidelock
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Is there anything unique on it. higher wood than expected, other oddities. someone had the ability to order outside of the grades and those guns weren't grade stamped.

I just looked and the only one I have with a weep hole is an ithaca assembled gun. All of my lefever assembled guns have no weep hole, from cocking rod models all through the late large hook guns. I also pulled out a .410 lefever nitro and it has a weephole, so im guessing maybe ithaca was doing that.

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Doublenut;
The G grade was added to the Lefever line earlier than the H. It began as gun having Damascus bbls, with only line engraving around the Side Plates & little sunburst designs on screw heads & exposed ends. When the H was added it was virtually un-engraved & featured Twist barrels. At a later date a scroll design was added to the side plates of each grade with the H also receiving the sunburst on the screw ends. I do not own a late enough G to have the scroll, but as I recall from ones I have seen it has just a bit more in other places than does the H. Also at some point both grades were offered with steel barrels. If it has welded barrels then their composition is a strong indicator as to if its an H or G, but of course doesn't help much if they are steel. In either case the difference between the two are fairly minor.Both were good solid guns capable of giving many years of dependable service, true "American Classics".
PS; I won't say one doesn't exist but I have never seen a G with a dog or bird scene, only the scroll. Some fairly early F's had a single dog but most later ones have birds (Very early ones had little engraving). Dogs are most often seen on E grade & above

Last edited by 2-piper; 01/13/14 07:21 PM. Reason: added comment

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Lefever is one of those rare makes which has almost as many exceptions to the rule as those which follow the rule. As a rule the later the gun the more the engraving which is reversed from most makes which tend to cut cost by getting simpler as they go to save money.

I have three 20 DS and all have weep holes. Also I would bet they were all assembled near or after the Ithaca take over. Quite nice light guns but barrels tend to be thin if mine are average.

Grades were often marked but again there are exceptions. Most tend to be later guns made from parts on hand. I once passed on a H grade with one steel barrel and one Damascused barrel. Certainly an Ithaca gun. Wood was very nice and it had 32" barrels. I regret my mistake. Often the guns you pass on are more interesting than the ones you buy in hind sight.

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This is my damascus barreled G Grade, # 18592,(1893) and though it's hard to see in this photo it has a single line border around the inside edge of the side plate, not the frame.





This is an original condition I grade #50167 (1905), with steel barrels I have, no border at all at all.




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Sidelock
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Trying to post a pic. Is there a stiky on picture posting?


Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

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Sidelock
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Went through the FAQ's. Here is a pic. Extractor gun with 26" steel barrels, choked Ex. Full/Full. Snap On Forend. 14" LOP with 2 7/8" DAH, 1 5/8" DAC, Butt Plate is plain with lines not the LAC butt plate. Thanks to all


Last edited by doublenut; 01/13/14 11:55 PM. Reason: info update

Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

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Sidelock
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Here is a pic of the water table



and of the receiver/sidelock



Dogs On Point!!! - doublenut

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