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7 members (LeFusil, Hugh Lomas, 4 invisible),
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 363 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 363 Likes: 16 |
Drew,
If needed, I can supply the needed Damascus barrel section. Just please let me know, best to email dennispotter@att.net or call 414 425 4830. And I will contribute to costs also.
Dennis
Dennis Potter
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212 |
I noticed they want the sample from the muzzle. Maybe, a section from where the barrel might be subject to the highest pressure would be interesting. A sample that will be or already is xrayed might give clues about predictability.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313 |
Craig: here is the response from the metallurgical engineer at METL. Whether from the muzzle or the breech, the barrel will need to be machined to a standard thickness.
We'd be machining flat tensile specimens so we'd need at a minimum 3 inches of barrel length. Our machinist suspects the least taper of wall thickness at the (muzzle). We'd probably be making 0.250" reduced section or 0.160" reduced section samples.
There are two charges associated: the machining charge for preparing the samples and the testing charge for pulling them. We base the machining cost off of how hard the material is (how much it degrades the cutting tools) so I'm not really sure what to expect with this Damascus material. The low end charge for soft material (aluminum, magnesium, etc.) is $25/sample and the high end charge for hard materials (superalloys) is $55/sample. The cost of machining should fall in that range. The cost of testing is a flat $17.50/sample.
Last edited by Drew Hause; 03/15/14 10:56 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,624 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,624 Likes: 13 |
Just for fun, I have a WILLIAM Greener (not WW) Damascus barrel set, London address that says, in addition to the name and address: "Barrels Indestructable by Gunpowder"
C. 1866
[IMG]
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313 |
William must have borrowed that from that other Greener fella "Laminated Steel Indestructible By Gunpowder" Greener pinfire  Greener percussion double  The L.C. Smith listing in the 1908 Sears, Roebuck & Co. Catalogue No. 117 included “Bored For Nitro Powder” (both Armor and Damascus barrels) and the Notice “All our guns are tested with heavy loads and cannot burst except by carelessness, obstruction in the barrel or improper home loaded shells with nitro or dense powder.”That last sentence pretty much says it all.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 638
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 638 |
“All our guns are tested with heavy loads and cannot burst except by carelessness, obstruction in the barrel or improper home loaded shells with nitro or dense powder.”
For Damascus barrels in as new condition that claim is true today!
Last edited by Mark Ouellette; 03/16/14 03:10 PM.
USMC Retired
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313 |
I've now received, or are in transit, 10 pattern welded and 3 fluid steel barrel segments for tensile strength testing. After METL completes the Failure Analysis, I'll take them together for testing. We all fully recognize this will not represent a statistically significant study, nor should the testing reassure anyone as the strength or integrity of YOUR barrel, but this should be interesting  I would still like a piece of a very low grade JABC junker if someone has a barrel out in the barn. Of particular significance is the fact that the freshly cut, not cleaned barrel, some with terrible bore pitting and corrosion, has a wall surface that looks like any other freshly cut metal AND NO ORANGE LACE as mythology would have us believe! I'll probably pick the worse looking surface for METL to examine under microscopy to confirm the absence of interlaminar rust. Special thanks to all those who have contributed in some way, esp. Dennis Potter: Dan Wildhaber Mike Brown Will Evans Chris Helms Phil Haycock Jason Marks Clifford A Russell Stephen Helsley Monty McGee Mike Novy Joe Dreisch Gil Russell
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313 |
Don't see no stinkin' orange lace Gerald Hunter “Don’t Blow Your Head Off!” Gun Digest 1962 Composite barrel metals are brittle, to begin with. The laminations were put together without accurate control, so the walls are not uniformly strong. Each joint of forge-welded metals is a potential pocket of rust or corrosion which holds together today but which by tomorrow may be ready to bust wide open. Damascus barrels, once thought safe with black powder, are no longer safe! They’re getting older every hour and those hidden rusty – and rusting – areas are growing larger, the barrel walls thinner, and that hundred-and-first shot may blow ‘em up. A collection of the non-cleaned, non-etched, non-nothing freshly cut barrel walls, part of the soon to be tensile strength tested   I'll probably pick the worst bore and have Adam section and photomicrograph for interlaminar rust.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Don't see no stinkin' orange lace Gerald Hunter “Don’t Blow Your Head Off!” Gun Digest 1962 Composite barrel metals are brittle, to begin with. The laminations were put together without accurate control, so the walls are not uniformly strong. Each joint of forge-welded metals is a potential pocket of rust or corrosion which holds together today but which by tomorrow may be ready to bust wide open. Damascus barrels, once thought safe with black powder, are no longer safe! They’re getting older every hour and those hidden rusty – and rusting – areas are growing larger, the barrel walls thinner, and that hundred-and-first shot may blow ‘em up. A collection of the non-cleaned, non-etched, non-nothing freshly cut barrel walls, part of the soon to be tensile strength tested I'll probably pick the worst bore and have Adam section and photomicrograph for interlaminar rust. Hey Dr. Drew- check your PMS messages. I just offered you a set of D grade Damascus barrels from a Lifter 12 bore Parker--How does that strike you- great early series barrels from the Brothers of Parker- yeah!!
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 129
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 129 |
Drew,
I'm glad that you posted the picture of these barrels. Of course, I knew that there would be no "orange lace", or any indication of the laminations. But, a picture is worth a thousand words.
When making damascus steel knife blades, the damascus pattern is not visible during the grinding and sanding before etching. It appears to be a mono steel. The pattern only becomes visible after etching.
There was a question in an old thread, about the barrel grinder's contribution to the creation of the damascus pattern. They had none. The damascus pattern was not visible to them, during their work.
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