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#360382 03/09/14 01:12 PM
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I picked up a 12 gauge Belgian Guild Gun made for William Read & Sons, Boston. I would like a little help narroeing down the manufacture date and if possible determining the builder. It sure is a nice solid shooter with 26 inch barrels choked cylinder and full.






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See here

http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

Picture of proof marks a bit dark but I see no date code
so:

Made before 1922
65mm chambers

1k530.3 Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used.

The diamond 12 c proofmark halted in 1924.

S. Bougnet is stamped on the tubes
But Louis Bougnet was the barrel maker most noted

Biggest hint, according to the above proof chart
the Max Powder listing on the barrels was only
used between 1897-1903
Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder

Mike

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Mike, thanks for the info and another site to add to my bookmarks.

I had already it narrowed down to 1897 to 1924. I hadn't noticed the powder type and max load were only used from 1897 to 1903. That gets me close enough. That is also confirmed here. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

I wonder what powder is ECM3 and what kind of pressure was achieved with a 33 grain max load.

The bores measure as specified at proof and are bright and pit free. Who ever purchased this gun took very good care of it back in the day. I will do the same.

Last edited by Slowpokebill; 03/09/14 02:40 PM.
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Last edited by skeettx; 03/09/14 02:52 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Slowpokebill
...I hadn't noticed the powder type and max load were only used from 1897 to 1903. That gets me close enough. That is also confirmed here. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

I wonder what powder is ECM3 and what kind of pressure was achieved with a 33 grain max load.


You and thousands of others wondered the same thing. Some of those powders produced 6,000 psi while others produced 10,000 psi. The users of the day rarely had convenient access to the powder listed on the gun. As a result, a Royal Decree was issued in Belgium, 30 Oct 1897, that set the proof pressure at 8,800 psi.

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the wood looks rather nice from here, the blackish stripes on the orangey brown ..are the cheeks finely chequered like some Francotte *14s?...looks like a nice gun...good one
any other pics?...side/bottom pf action or wood?
franc

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Here are a few more photos






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thats a grand gun Bill..lovely timber..a nice find,,some of those no name Belgian guns can be really sweet
franc

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Originally Posted By: PeteM
Originally Posted By: Slowpokebill
...I hadn't noticed the powder type and max load were only used from 1897 to 1903. That gets me close enough. That is also confirmed here. http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

I wonder what powder is ECM3 and what kind of pressure was achieved with a 33 grain max load.


You and thousands of others wondered the same thing. Some of those powders produced 6,000 psi while others produced 10,000 psi. The users of the day rarely had convenient access to the powder listed on the gun. As a result, a Royal Decree was issued in Belgium, 30 Oct 1897, that set the proof pressure at 8,800 psi.

Pete



I'm sure some here already realize it, but psi in vintage literature--such as proof data from the late 19th century, and in fact much later than that--is really LUP. Still measuring with lead crushers back then. So that proof pressure is probably more like 10,000 psi as we'd measure it today.

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Originally Posted By: Franc Otte
thats a grand gun Bill..lovely timber..a nice find,,some of those no name Belgian guns can be really sweet
franc


I'm shooting this gun really well. I hunt over good pointing dogs. I sure the cylinder bore right barrel helps. This gun is a keeper!

Last edited by Slowpokebill; 03/10/14 11:01 AM.

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