|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
3 members (Argo44, 2 invisible),
922
guests, and
3
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,513
Posts545,667
Members14,419
| |
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,781
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,781 |
An unlicensed individual (Me)sells a post 1898 long gun to an unlicensed individual in another state, with return priveleges. The buyer sends an FFL copy,and seller ships the gun to the dealer. The buyer wants to return the gun for refund. The Dealer wont ship the gun back to the seller, says seller (Me) must send him a copy of an FFL and he will ship to sellers (My) Dealer. and I will have to buy my own gun back.. The buyers Dealer says he had to record the gun in his bound book "the minute it hit the door). The buyer did not fill out the yellow form and the gun wasn't transferred to him..Is this question covered anywhere in the FFL regs. If you know, please help.. MDC
Last edited by M D Christian; 03/20/07 08:11 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 973 |
He can ship the gun directly back to you as you are still the owner. You can ship a firearm to Ruger for repair and they can ship it back to you. You are the owner of the gun. He did record the gun in his bound book but its the same as if you lived in his state and brought the gun in to be fixed and picked it up next week. As long as you picked it back up, there is no paperwork as you retained ownership of the gun. What state did you ship to? Good luck,
Ross
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,781
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,781 |
I shipped the gun to New York. The dealer says he is going by Federal Law. not local..Board members, be aware that I have no problem with the buyer, he is a board member and has been gentleman all the way.. I juust think the ealer iws off base.. MDC
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71 |
MDC, Once the receiving dealer logs the gun into his A&D book it can only be logged out to a FFL or a 4473.
Ross, The the scenario you are quoting is a repair. A gun logged into a repair book can only go back to the person that it was logged from , unless a 4473 is run.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983 |
I believe the FFL dealer is wrong. Maybe if you stand just as firm and hard-headed as he is and refuse to accept the gun back, the buyer can straighten him out. I's also suggest the buyer ask the FFL holder to show him where that is stated in his rule book. At the very least, if you HAVE to play his wrong game, any costs to you for an FFL on your end should be deducted from the refunded amount. Along with shipping costs, both ways, of course.
The dealer, like some others, does not know his own rules, IMO.
Thinking back, I have returned one gun and have had one returned to me. In neither case did I have to involve another FFL, for the return. Both guns still belonged to the seller.
Last edited by Jim Legg; 03/20/07 10:32 AM.
> Jim Legg <
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,567 Likes: 71 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 468
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 468 |
MDC....the dealer is correct...once he's logged the gun in, there are only a few "correct" ways to log it out. It can be logged out to a non-licensed person living in the same state along with form 4473, it can be shipped to any FFL dealer as long as the dealer has a signed copy of the other dealers license, or it can be returned to its original (non-licensed) owner, if it was shipped to the dealer for repair. Just because some dealers might just return the shotgun to its owner, don't fault this dealer for wanting a correct and legal disposition for every firearm leaving his book....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,983 |
I'm glad Mikey jumped in on this. I'm happy to stand corrected based on his knowledge and experience. If MDC's dealer in question IS correct, this is one of the few ATF rules that do not make sense. Most of them are quite logical.
I'd still like to see it in print.
> Jim Legg <
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30 |
Once its in the Bound Book, it can be
1. returned after repair to the original owner , if it was logged in as a repair or;
2. be sent back to another FFL or done up on a 4473.
If the dealer keeps his repairs and sales in the same book (he is nuts if he does) he could theoretically "return" it to you after it was "repaired", definitely not to the spirit of the law. I wouldnt do it and dont know any dealer who would.
Brian
LTC, USA Ret.
NRA Patron Member
AHFGCA Life Member
USPSA Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30 |
In addition to this, many dealers dont know the law on a number of things. Some insist that a dealer send them an FFL when selling them a gun. The buying dealer is required by law to supply an FFL to the selling dealer . But many insist on it.
On the other hand I have ahd several dealers try to buy actions form me and didnt want to provide an FFL because they said it wasnt a gun. The serial numbered component is the firearm.
Dealer ignorance can only be topped by UPS ignorance of the Federal laws.
And I am a dealer!!
Brian
LTC, USA Ret.
NRA Patron Member
AHFGCA Life Member
USPSA Life Member
|
|
|
|
|
