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Joined: Jul 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I am in the process of researching a Charles Lancaster,0ver and Under box lock.The gun in question is a 16G ejector, with single trigger, Serial #013519.I believe the gun may have been made in Birmingham circa 1920 and perhaps finished in London.
Dose any one have any manufacturers literature /information to share on this Lancaster model and /or the identity of the actual maker?



















































/

Last edited by Roy Hebbes; 04/09/14 07:11 PM.

Roy Hebbes
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Sidelock
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Roy , was there not a Lancaster over/under started in Germany ? I am away from my books, so cannot verify. Daryl

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Sidelock
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I think you forgot to post a pic.

Lancaster O/Us, sidelock (this is an awesome gun, btw):

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1754-sca...rrel-set-59252/


Boxlocks, both 16gs:

http://www.hoferwaffen.com/hofer_10g.php?pid=46&cid=&lang=en

and

http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Lancaster.jpg

The boxlocks look Belgian to me, like a boxlock version of a Defourny-patent O/U:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20defourny%20a%20j%20gb.htm

OWD


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Sidelock
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I'm pretty sure that Geofery Boothroid started the "German action" myth regarding Lancaster O/U's. There are some similarities with the "typical" German action because of the basic needs of the O/U system. Although Lancaster O/U's are quite rare, I've seen a few, both boxlocks and sidelocks. There is no reason for Lancaster to start with a "bought in" action for their top of the line gun when they had some very good gunmakers working for them. I've seen 12, and 20 ga. actions, and all are undoubtedly "one off". I believe their total production of all types and gauges of O/U's is fewer than 30.

Best,

Mal

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Sidelock
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I agree Mal,
What makes these Lancaster look Belgian or German is the crosspin location below the barrels. That design makes the action look tall and not so elegant (IMHO).
Moreover, the barrel lump protruding through the action to push the Purdey bolt back is not helping either.
Trunion mounted pivot points make such equipped guns much more attractive (to me). A close second would be the Cordy floating 1/2 pin system.
Best regards,
WC-

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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Apr 2002
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hello roy,
unusual for yourself to be short on info! hope you get what you need.
mal, i always understood lancaster o prefix numbers to be "bought in".
cheers
mrwmartin


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Sidelock
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Yeah - but if they were built on Lancaster's own design, why didn't Thorn patent it?

According to Boothroyd, Thorn did come up with a design for some O/U ejector work which he patented. So why not patent the rest of the gun? Thorn was obviously interested in protecting his creations.

Also Boothroyd mentions a letter in The Field stating that the actions came in-the-white from Germany. Apparently there was some dispute in the trade surrounding the guns's origins.


OWD


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Sidelock
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OWD,

There was nothing new or patentable about the action itself; unless you count the "humpback" top tang attempting to minimize the visual height of the action. It didn't work! Possibly rough forgings came from Germany; but lockwork and finishing looks to have been done in London. Sidelocks have the distintive "Lancaster" shaped plates. Examples that I have seen are all marked "Patent Ejector".

Best,

Mal

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Sidelock
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Yeah. OK. I see what you're saying. They're basically SxSs, flipped on their sides. Nothing new there except for the ejectorwork.

OWD


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Sidelock
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Mr. W martin,

You are most probably correct. I'm not anywhere near my referances.

Best,

Mal

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