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I bought a pre-1899 shotgun for parts or restoration this morning on Gunbroker. Gander Mountain was the seller. Here is a copy of the e-mail I received when I inquired about shipping directly to me:

Sir:
Our Gander Mountain
compliance policy prohibits us from shipping any firearm to
a non-licensed individual. This transaction will have
to be handled through
either a CR or FFL licensee.
Thank you very much
for your understanding in this matter.
Paul H.

Here is my reply to them:

Mr. H********,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I wish I had gotten in touch with you to clarify this matter before the end of the auction because the law pertaining to pre-1899 antiques is frequently misunderstood. I have in the past had my local FFL dealer call the Pittsburgh, Pa. ATF field office about this, and they told him that pre-1899 antiques absolutely do not require an FFL transfer and that it is actually illegal to even enter them in the bound ledger book since those records are for post 1899 guns only. Here is a link to information concerning this: http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

The link above also contains a very useful list of the antique cut-off dates for various manufacturers

Here is a section from this page concerning inadvertant entries of antiques into your bound ledger book;
Q: But what if I find a pre-1899 gun at a gun shop that was mistakenly logged into the dealer's "bound book" of post-1899 firearms? Won't I have to fill out a Form 4473
(yellow form)?

A: No. All the dealer has to do is log the gun out as: "Inadvertent entry. Pre-1899 manufactured receiver [or frame]. No FFL required." If the dealer gives you any grief and insists on you filling out the yellow form, a call to any BATFE branch office will confirm this. In fact, according to the law, dealers are NOT ALLOWED to log pre-1899s into their books at all, since they are outside of Federal jurisdiction, and the "bound book" is their record book of guns that are within Federal nexus. (It makes about as much sense as a FFL holder logging a pellet rifle into his bound book.)

Here is a link to the FAQ section of the ATF website. http://www.atf.gov/content/what-qualifies-antique-firearm

About 1/3 of the way down the page are the sections pertaining to pre-1899 antiques.

I have no problems with getting an FFL transfer when required, but it is just an extra $35.00 expense that is absolutely unnecessary, especially for a gun that is abused and worn out and not much good except for parts. I hope this helps. Of course, you could call the nearest ATF Field Office to verify this.

Thanks,

Keith

My question is this... can they actually refuse to ship this gun due to their incorrect policy if I pay for it? I'm getting a little tired of wasting money and time when I have to go and get an FFL copy and return to the gun shop to pick up an antique that my dealer doesn't log in his books anyway. He doesn't actually charge me when this happens, but I always flip him $20.00 as a matter of goodwill for his time and trouble.

Keith:
I've been there myself and this is a very frustrating situation to be in. However; This guy may not have a choice in the matter as the people in charge at Gander Mtn are the ones who set the policy.
It could be worse as I had owners of similiar guns state that the would only ship to an 01 FFL holder.
I'd at least wait and see what kind of answer "H" comes back with.
BTW: If you look at the listing there's a spot where it indicates whether a FFL is required or not.

Jim

Remember your contract law? Maybe what your are missing is a meeting of the minds. Therefore possibly no contract even if there is an exchange of funds.

A company can choose how it does business.
If it wants ONE uniform policy to insure nothing falls
throught the crack and they do NOT end up on CNN, so be it.

A pain in the butt for us, but cheaper lawyer-wise for them.

Mike

p.s. remember when we told our kids to be in at 10PM becuase
I said so! Same principle.

p.s.s. Keith, thank you for being an NRA Benefactor Life Member

I think the answer to your question is yes

as said above
company policy can be stricter than the applicable law, that is their choice

i have been in many stores that require a handgun permit to buy handgun ammunition, it is not the law, but corporate policy, annoying but i would seriously doubt they can be forced to change.

I watched a guy who had a lever action in 45lc - purchased at that store - then they would not sell him ammo because he did not have a permit for a handgun in that caliber. THAT would be annoying

this SHOULD however be made clear as a condition of the auction, Gunbroker has a line that states whether or not an FFL is required.

Hi Keith,

I'm sure they can, just refund your money.....

As mentioned, company policies can trump the meaning and comprehension and common sense of our written ATF laws, especially when the retailer is reasoning towards caution......Obviously Gander Mountain has painted their policies with a very broad brush indicating "All Gun Sales" must ship to an FFL......I personally do not do business with people who have these "blanket" FFL policies.....There are lot's of stupid people peddling firearms who have little understanding of what our current laws really mean.

Many of the large box store retailers are doing business in the heavy liberal Democrat states where state law requires an FFL for a pellet gun or ammunition like the OH Osthaus post above mentioned......Mass, N.Y.C., Calif., Ill., N.J. and so on.....Therefore the retailers implement these "blanket FFL Policies" and punish every customer.....

You should ask Gander Mountain if they require an FFL transfer for ANY black powder replica handgun or long gun, then you will have your answer.

Good Luck with it and Best Regards,

Do you want the gun? Would you have paid 20-35 dollars more for it? If so just pay it. This is not some silly clerk making an important decision. I am sure it is some blanket policy. Remember rule like this are made so even the dumbest employee can not screwup. They are afraid of one gun slipping through the system and being used in some horrible news making crime. How would they like to be the retailer who sold nut X the gun they used in some major shooting spree? Then have it come out it was an "antique" that did not go through a FFL. Never mind the fact it did not have to. Truth is a very minor fact to anti gun people. This way they get to say we exceeded the law when they ship to an FFL.

BTW

On Christmas eve 2012 a man near rochester ny set his house on fire and ambushed the firemen responding to the call. He killed 2 first responders.

The guns he used were purchased by a young woman and then given to him. He had a felony comviction for murdering his grandmother with a hammer.

The young woman, who had no issues with the background check bought the guns from Gander Mountain, the vicims families are now sueing GM for not being clairvoyant. I do not think they will be relaxing any policy in the near future.

Been in the same situation and even offered to pay $15 more to avoid the FFL hassle. No luck. Even when provided w/the facts.

In their eyes, $35 isn't worth changing a paperwork policy for reasons mentioned by those in this post. Sad, but true.

Did the add say it must be sent to FFL? If it wasn't clear, then you may have an out on the deal.

Quote:
"The young woman, who had no issues with the background check bought the guns from Gander Mountain, the vicims families are now sueing GM for not being clairvoyant. I do not think they will be relaxing any policy in the near future."

This is a typical lawyer ploy to sue whoever has the deepest pockets. No I'm NOT a lawyer but I spent years in the legal field and the whole system is out of control.
Ever wonder why you suddenly ended up with that idiotic tire pressue monotoring system on your cars? You can thank lawyers and the legal system for that.
Jim

Keith:
Would you please post a link to the ad where you bought that gun so we can view it?
Jim

Well, this one had a somewhat happy ending. The reply to my e-mail stated that this was Gander Mtn policy, and all guns, antique or not, had to be shipped to an FFL. But they also said I could have this shipped to another Gander Mtn store in my area for transfer at no extra charge. Fortunately, there is a Gander Mtn store about 3 miles from where I work, so I took that option.

The gun I bought was a Lefever with a cracked and cut off buttstock. They said the lock-up was loose, which is usually the top bolt or sometimes a broken top lever spring which doesn't fully return to engage the bolt in the rib extension. Clean bores, uncut barrels, no dents or loose ribs, etc. Everything else functional. The screw slots look untouched. I paid a whole $150.00 plus $25.00 to ship. For either a parts gun or restoration candidate, I think I did OK.

But it still frosts my posterior to have to do an FFL transfer on a pre-1899 gun when the law says it isn't necessary. And although it is usually just a small added expense, on a percentage basis with a cheap gun like this, sometimes it is a deal breaker. $35.00 to transfer a $3500.00 gun is a mere 1% extra, but to pay $35.00 to transfer a $150.00 P.O.S. would add 23.3% to the cost. Yes, in this case, I still would have bought it. As stated earlier, my FFL would charge me nothing to accept delivery of an antique, and he won't bother putting the pre-1899 gun in his bound ledger, but I always tip him $20.00 for accepting the package and providing FFL copies to send to idiots who don't know the law. Many FFL's in my area are now charging $40 to $50 for the 5-10 minutes it takes to do a transfer. Ain't nuthin' to the guys who only buy a gun once every 10 years.

BTW, apparently when you list a gun on GunBroker, you have to uncheck the box for "Requires FFL" if it is an antique. Some sellers forget to do this, and others will change their tune when you inform them of what the law says and provide proof of date of manufacture. And many are just obstinate.