doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com A concise history of the Krag

Now that you guys have me looking for a Krag sporter, I have discovered that I know much less than I thought I knew. Which is to say I know I know less than almost nothing.

So, would anyone want to volunteer a concise history of the Krag rifle(s). It seems there is an 1892, 96 and 98. Is one more desirable than another (stronger, more reliable, more svelte, etc).

And it seems that there is a Krag of a different flavor for every nationality. Does this matter when looking for a more or less classic American sporter conversion (not a hacked down military stock)?

If all of this is just way too much to post on a thread, a good book title or website would be useful. I found the Kragcollectors forum, though I have not yet come up with $10 to buy a membership (I can be a cheap bastard).

Anyway, if anyone wants to wax poetic on the illustrious histories and diversity of Krag rifles, I would love to bend my ear to hear it.

Buy the way, I dropped into my local shop looking for a lost Krag in the racks. Alas, no luck but no surprise there. I did find a Lee Enfield converted to .22 rf singleshot. Not sure of the purpose of that, but interesting - however, no appeal to me at all.

Start with this one-

The Krag Rifle
Lt. Col. William S. Brophy, USAR Ret.
Beinfeld Publishing, Inc.
North Hollywood, CA
256 pages
1980
ISBN 0-917714-21-0
It's a superb book.

The Krag is a Norwegian design and the action was used by Norway (6.5X55), Danmark (8mm), and the US in .30-40.

The first US model is the 1892. Most of these were converted to the 1894 configuration and a true 92 is a rare and valuable rifle. the 94 is not common. The 1896 is fairly common and some consider its action to be the best but the differences are trivial. The 1898 is by far the most readily available and I really don't see it giving up anything to the '96. The bore and groove dimensions tend to be more precise on the '98. Real issue carbines are rare and expensive. Arsenal converted "carbines" for civilian sales exist and are less expensive. Intact infantry rifles are the most common originals but Bubba conversions and Milo Parkenfarker specials seem to be even more common. Rifles refitted with shortened and rechambered 1903 Springfield barrels also seem fairly common.

As for issue sights there is a plethora and it isn't simple. The most precise is the 1901 which is a version of the Buffington on the 1884 Trapdoor and is the forerunner of the sight used on the 1903 Springfield. The rest are notch or open sight and most are adustable for windage with one strange variant that has a flip up small peep attached to the rear sight. These sights require good eyesight. For aftermarket sights there were several with some that do not require drilling the action (Redfield Mod 70 and 80 for instance). The Rice is a really neat sight made of folded metal that fits on top of the extractor bar and is adjustable for elevation and windage and that uses an existing screw or rivit hole to attach.

So if looking for a shooter I would be just as delighted with a '96 as a '98 especially with bullets cast to fit the barrel. If thinking about collecting, well then there's a lot more too it.

Jerry Liles

As for the foreign Krags the Norwegian in 6.5x55 is a really really nice rifle. Very well made, strong and chambered for a very nice cartridge. Not very common though and the cartridge is not as nice for cast bullets as the .30-40.

The Danish Krag is chambered for an 8mm cartridge peculiar to the Krag. The rifles are well made but have some oddities, such as a barrel shroud, that, at least to me, make it less desirable as a shooter, but a nice piece for a collector.

If I ever run across a Norwegian I'm going to buy it but I would not consider giving up my Springfield version in trade.

Jerry Liles

If the .22 enfield is cheap it might be worth buying , they are normally a sought after item and worth a bit.

I respectfully submit there is a small error there. There was no such thing as a Model 1894. The 1892, after adoption and multiple field trials to iron out some bugs, didn't get into regular production until 1894, with that year of production stamped on the receiver. Most 1892's were upgraded to M1896 specs when that model came out, which is why completely original 1892s are scarcer than hen's teeth (and fetch huge premiums from collectors).

Arsenal converted rifles in carbine form (often referred to as NRA Sales Rifles, but they were never officially called that) do indeed exist, and many were made for low priced civilian sales as a means for the gov't to divest itself of piles of unwanted surplus Krags. The trouble is, the modifications were simple: shortened barrels and stocks to emulate the cavalry carbine. Said modifications could also be performed by every Tom Dick and Harry with a hacksaw and a rasp. The result being it is impossible to tell a genuine Arsenal conversion from a civilian one (as long as said civilian was a skilled craftsman and not a wild-eyed Bubba) without the original sales receipt that came with the rifle from the Arsenal. Guess how many of those pieces of paper exist anymore? A documented "NRA Sales" gun is highly sought after by collectors, with corroborating paperwork, and fetch sums equal to original military rifles in equal condition, if not more. This is one instance where "If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck" isn't necessarily true. That piece of paper is why undocumented sales rifles are worth only what any other cut down Krags are worth- a couple to a few hundred bucks.

Two good books on the Krag are the ones by Mallory and Brophy, but sadly both are out of print and are subject to the vagaries of the used book market. That said, anyone seriously looking to break into the world of Krags is highly encouraged to take a deep breath and buy one of them. Knowledge is priceless when considering the purchase of a gun.

There is a Krag book in print, by Joe Poyer. I don't own it but a lot of comrades on the Krag forums decry the mistakes he made in it. So, my take on it is based on hearsay. I suppose it would be a place to start though.

$10 to join the Krag forum? My memory may be suspect, but I think I would remember paying to join up, and I don't (unless we're talking of different forums- and there aren't but a couple that I'm aware of, and believe me I looked). Even so, $10 would be a paltry sum for the chance to pick the brains of some real experts. Again, knowledge is power, even if one has to pay for that knowledge.

Gary D is correct. The early rifles are technically Model 1892s, but are not marked "Model". They only have a (fiscal) year of manufacture stamped on the left side of the receiver. The Model 1896 rifles and carbines appeared in 1896 and are so marked.

I am told that Joe Poyer put out a Second Edition which corrected a lot of the perceived errors in the earlier edition. Price is in the $20 to $25 range (and readily available on line) as compared with $100+ for the Brophy book and almost $200 for the remaindered Mallory & Olsen books. If you think you need one of the expensive hardbacks, the Brophy book is a far better value.

If you are after a cast bullet hunting rifle, stick with the much more common US-made Krags. Stick to the 30/40 cartridge. There are wildcats and conversions to other calibers which can lead to problems. For a hunting rifle, the "no drill" receiver sights will be worth the search. The Redfield models are the best, followed by the Pacific, with the Marble sight a distant third.

I also participate in the Krag Collectors Forum. My particular interest is in the .22 rimfire conversions. I did not pay $10.

I wonder if a century from now people will be waxing nostalgic and discussing the differences in models of the government M-16 such as we do with Krags and '03s? I kinda hope they will be.

One thing I'm not clear on- was there a system in place during the 1890's whereby a civilian could purchase a Krag directly from the Armory, as in the NRA sales '03's, NRA Sporters, NM rifles, etc. of a couple decades later?

Anecdote regarding Krags and cast bullets: At the tender age of 16 I bought my first Krag, along with a bullet mold that casts a plain base design bullet. I hustled up some 2400 powder, cast some bullets, and proceeded to load a couple boxes- not knowing that A) the bullets needed to be lubricated and cast of harder material than pure soft lead, and B) 2400 isn't an ideal powder for shooting plain base bullets- and I loaded them fairly "hot" to boot. I started whacking away at a target and got decent grouping with the first 3-4 shots, and then the bullets started flying with a mind of their own. Discouraged, I slunk back home. Imagine my surprise when I looked down the bore that evening and saw a smoothbore- the grooves were completely filled with lead. I found myself wishing I had stopped shooting before I went through a couple dozen of those cartridges. Glory be, what an ordeal getting that lead out was. Sometimes I wonder how I escaped my teenage years...

I believe that the 8mm cartridge for the Danish Krag was the 8x58r for the danish krag and also many of the rolling block rifles recently imported into the country. Hope this helps. Frank