January
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 99 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,541
Posts513,154
Members14,123
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
#370796 06/28/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54
I posted this on another webpage a few days ago and never got the feedback I had hoped for so...I'll try it here.

The topic of conversation in the shop yesterday. There are very different ideas on the subject: one being that modern ammunition (ie. w/shotcups) almost obviates the need for any choke, the other is that factory chokes (especially those with the long parallel-sections past the constriction) are the only effective choke systems. The third path is that any constriction of the shot collumn is sufficient to achieve the desired effect of full(er) patterns at distance, even if the constriction is only at the last few fractions of an inch at the muzzle.

I've had the length shortened on the barrel on an older (and, more practical than valuable) gun to achieve two things: to shorten the overall length and weight of the gun and, more importantly (to me), to change the choke from full to now about light-modified. The gun is presently at 26 1/2-inches and has 10-points of choke, which at 16-gauge should be about right for my needs in the uplands.

Anybody else here ever play this game?

Lloyd3 #370797 06/28/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 268
Not quite that way; but I've had chokes opened up from "Full & full" to Imp Cylinder & Modified, or Skeet & Imp Cylinder(depending on the gun) & never regretted it.
I am not sure Michael Murphy was right about "no choke needed,"
but for me, open chokes work better.


Sam Ogle
Lloyd3 #370805 06/28/14 05:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,678
Likes: 146
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,678
Likes: 146
Sam, that was Michael McIntosh that said that "Choke is obsolete with today's ammunition". I think that may be the statement you are referring to. I disagreed with him, and still do.

I DO think most people are overchoked with full/full, using modern ammo. I, however, lean toward more choke. I compete with .020" and .020" fixed chokes in NSCA tournaments, and with .018" and .018" in my main competition S x S.

I have opened fixed chokes a little bit several times, and only regretted it once.

SRH


Drinking from my saucer, 'cause my cup has overflowed .......
Lloyd3 #370809 06/28/14 05:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54

I believe that it was McIntosh where I read that statement, probably in the same book where he sang the praises of his late father's Model 31. I have found his supposition on both items to be argueably correct. At least in 12-gauge. For sub-gauge guns (20-bores), I do find that a bit-more choke is useful for keeping patterns from becoming splotchly and uneven. What I'm curious about is how that needs to be achieved.

Lloyd3 #370810 06/28/14 06:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,678
Likes: 146
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,678
Likes: 146
IME, it is mostly trial and error, Lloyd. The "formulas" for really nice patterns are few and far between. A pattern plate is really a good investment, if one is concerned about getting nice patterns out of one's gun(s). What works in one won't necessarily give the same results out of the next (seemingly) identical gun.

Ain't all this fun? grin

SRH


Drinking from my saucer, 'cause my cup has overflowed .......
Lloyd3 #370813 06/28/14 07:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 471
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 471
Lloyd3,

Lloyd, my comments are based on my experience and advice from bird hunters (quail hunters) when I was growing up. I have opened many many old side by sides and closed a few via jug choking. My experience relates to 20 and 28 gauge guns and a few 16 gauges. Based on my experience the smaller the gauge the more important the choking for good hunting results.

I was taught to pattern your gun with the brand of shell and size shot at the distances you plan to shoot because different guns with the supposedly same constriction may pattern differ brand shells or shot size differently.

I like playing the game and believe each gun, especially older ones, have to be adjusted according to observed results.

Take Care,
Riprap

Lloyd3 #370814 06/28/14 07:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 471
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 471
Stan,

I just reread your last comment and I certainly agree with you. I think you just gave the "short and sweet version" and my long winded approach wasn't necessary. I just should have said Amen Stan.

Take Care,
Riprap

Lloyd3 #370822 06/28/14 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54
Lloyd3 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 54
Thanks folks! I kind of figured that it was truely a "hit or miss" proposition, but trimming that barrel back a bit made me delve into the lore of chokes more deeply than normal. Lots of people have very-closely held convictions on the subject (at least in what they write). I figure that if I've made a complete hash of it, I can always cut another half-inch off and go with choke tubes. The true test will be the patterning board or the dove-opener, whichever comes first.

Lloyd3 #370827 06/28/14 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,678
Likes: 84
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,678
Likes: 84
The proof is in the pudding, Lloyd. I've altered chokes on a few and changed the barrel length on a gun that had a Cutts on it. My experiences have been good, and I'd do the same thing to both guns today all over again. I still own them both. My Dad opened his full choke A5 to modified when I was a kid, and shot it just as poorly as he did prior to that operation.
I suspect shotgun barrels are often unique unto themselves. There is a lot of hit or miss out there (pardon the pun) on modification to them.

Best,
Ted

Lloyd3 #370828 06/28/14 09:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 3
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 3
A complicated subject: First we have to classify whether we are talking breaking clays or killing birds.
A choke that will break a clay may only wound a bird.
I shoot several thousand rounds a year at sporting Clays and a LOT less than that at birds.
I use a .012-.015 choke for about all Sporting up to 45 yds and it breaks everything that I think should have broken. I shot the same choke last weekend at a Station which had an edge on 50 yd clay and I am confident my choke was too open. Of course a bird
would have been wounded if hit at that distance with that choke.
when we are shooting birds at distance over about 25 yds , I do not agree with McIntosh either. I have wounded Quail and Dove with a choke too open when the distance is too far for the constriction. I use IC for Quail and Mod usually for Dove and Duck.

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.046s Queries: 35 (0.022s) Memory: 0.8474 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2022-01-17 08:09:06 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS