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Originally Posted By: Laxcoach
RWTF's experience mirrors mine. I have 12 Elsies, all pre-13,all get used, and NONE have cracks or the beginning of same. I'm convinced that recoil from too-high pressure/too long shells start evident cracks, but I'm equally convinced that (let the flaming begin) improper gun storage gave birth to the condition of the head of the stock. When examining an Elsie for purchase The FIRST thing I look for is darkening at the head and fingers of the stock. The darkening tells me that oil seepage caused the discolation, and if one removes the sideplates one finds more oil there in what little wood there is. That wood is always "pithy" and takes the brunt of the recoil--- result-- cracks behind the locks.
The cure? Remove the oil and Acraglas the head, and STORE THE GUN MUZZLE DOWN !!
Tightness of action screws goes without saying-- just don't overdo it.
Yesiree- and pre WW1 walnut, better close tolerance handwork (with resultant higher labor costs)- love Smith shotguns, always wondered what if: (1) The Hunter Bros. hadn't invested in some power plant scheme and kept the pre-1913 quality extant and (2) If Germany had avoided torpedoing the Lusitania and also had not tried to guarantee Mexico two of our 48 Sates if they wage sabotage against America- and Wilson had kept us out of the War (to end all Wars)-- more Missouri and Iowa black walnut for the double guns, less for the 1903 Springfields and aircraft propellors perhaps- oh well-


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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rwarren Offline OP
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Thanks everyone! I was looking at a post 1913 Smith that is in nice shape except for it's cracked behind the locks. The price seems right so, based on your information, I decided to buy it and repair it myself. The stock doesn't appear to be oil soaked so hopefully will be a fairly easy repair.

It's been said before but I will say it again anyway...I'm amazed at the knowledge on this site! I don't post much but read it everyday.

Bob

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Make sure when you dis-assemble the locks from the frame, one of the first steps in a detail strip for any Smith gun, you have the locks cocked- different from a detail strip on a boxlock double gun. If the Smith you are buying is a post-1913, whether a R frame or a FW, the lock inletting at the head and radiused areas for the locks will be somewhat different from the pre-1913 Smiths- regardless of grade.

Also, if you find it necessary to pin the cracked areas at the head and tang(s) remember to countersink the pins at an angle to the run of the grain in that area.-- In woodworking, the term of "quarter sawn" better describes what I am trying to detail here for you. Would you maybe consider some before and after photos, so we can all benefit from your pending project??


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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I have yet to see an L.C. Smith Syracuse with a crack behind the locks as well as most of the pre-13 ones. I believe a lot had to do with the quality of the wood. When Lyman sold the L.C. Smith Gun Company in Syracuse to John Hunter, the wood alone was estimated at $250,000 and that was in 1889.

I too believe that many of the cracks behind the locks are from loosened screws and using the wrong loads as these guns were passed down through the years. Ignorance is bliss.

If you think there is little wood between the locks, look at one with a Hunter One Trigger, more wood has to be removed for the trigger. Scary thin.

Last edited by JDW; 01/03/15 03:46 PM.

David


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Most people don't realize that the lugs on the rear of the lockplates absorb most of the recoil. Loose locks or poor fitting here create a wedge and cause most of the cracks. bedding material at this location will stop the damage


I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong

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Thanks...I'll take it apart when I get it and see what's going on, taking some pictures as I go. This gun is nothing special just a basic field 12 gauge. Been wanting to try something like this and it seems to be a perfect candidate.

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Pictures would be great. Also if you have never taken an L.C. Smith apart, to the uninitiated, the top lever spring can be very hard to put back and many gunsmiths do not like working on them for this reason.


David


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JDW, Thanks for the heads-up.

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Originally Posted By: boboreno
Thanks...I'll take it apart when I get it and see what's going on, taking some pictures as I go. This gun is nothing special just a basic field 12 gauge. Been wanting to try something like this and it seems to be a perfect candidate.


One of the neat things about project guns, this one'll be very special to you afterwards.

Regards
Ken


I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
"the root issue is a lack of wood in the head of the stock"

Amen, and I am of the opinion that is where the cracks start, then extend and eventually become apparent at the apex of the lock. Please check the first 7 images here
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17090409

and compare the wood area with these boxlock and sidelock stocks
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/15127852



The photos are a good illustration. Side photos don't really show much, but when looking at the front, you see where the issue is. Thin wood and not much of it.

I think that of all the American sidelock (or side plate) guns, the ones least likely to get stock head splits are the Lefevers. This being that since their design is technically a side plate box lock, there is more wood behind the action than the other makers.
Granted, they have their own issues, like those thin top fingers breaking and their wrists breaking.


B.Dudley
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