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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
RWTF's experience mirrors mine. I have 12 Elsies, all pre-13,all get used, and NONE have cracks or the beginning of same. I'm convinced that recoil from too-high pressure/too long shells start evident cracks, but I'm equally convinced that (let the flaming begin) improper gun storage gave birth to the condition of the head of the stock. When examining an Elsie for purchase The FIRST thing I look for is darkening at the head and fingers of the stock. The darkening tells me that oil seepage caused the discolation, and if one removes the sideplates one finds more oil there in what little wood there is. That wood is always "pithy" and takes the brunt of the recoil--- result-- cracks behind the locks. The cure? Remove the oil and Acraglas the head, and STORE THE GUN MUZZLE DOWN !! Tightness of action screws goes without saying-- just don't overdo it. Yesiree- and pre WW1 walnut, better close tolerance handwork (with resultant higher labor costs)- love Smith shotguns, always wondered what if: (1) The Hunter Bros. hadn't invested in some power plant scheme and kept the pre-1913 quality extant and (2) If Germany had avoided torpedoing the Lusitania and also had not tried to guarantee Mexico two of our 48 Sates if they wage sabotage against America- and Wilson had kept us out of the War (to end all Wars)-- more Missouri and Iowa black walnut for the double guns, less for the 1903 Springfields and aircraft propellors perhaps- oh well-
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6 |
Thanks everyone! I was looking at a post 1913 Smith that is in nice shape except for it's cracked behind the locks. The price seems right so, based on your information, I decided to buy it and repair it myself. The stock doesn't appear to be oil soaked so hopefully will be a fairly easy repair.
It's been said before but I will say it again anyway...I'm amazed at the knowledge on this site! I don't post much but read it everyday.
Bob
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Make sure when you dis-assemble the locks from the frame, one of the first steps in a detail strip for any Smith gun, you have the locks cocked- different from a detail strip on a boxlock double gun. If the Smith you are buying is a post-1913, whether a R frame or a FW, the lock inletting at the head and radiused areas for the locks will be somewhat different from the pre-1913 Smiths- regardless of grade.
Also, if you find it necessary to pin the cracked areas at the head and tang(s) remember to countersink the pins at an angle to the run of the grain in that area.-- In woodworking, the term of "quarter sawn" better describes what I am trying to detail here for you. Would you maybe consider some before and after photos, so we can all benefit from your pending project??
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,720 Likes: 48
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,720 Likes: 48 |
I have yet to see an L.C. Smith Syracuse with a crack behind the locks as well as most of the pre-13 ones. I believe a lot had to do with the quality of the wood. When Lyman sold the L.C. Smith Gun Company in Syracuse to John Hunter, the wood alone was estimated at $250,000 and that was in 1889.
I too believe that many of the cracks behind the locks are from loosened screws and using the wrong loads as these guns were passed down through the years. Ignorance is bliss.
If you think there is little wood between the locks, look at one with a Hunter One Trigger, more wood has to be removed for the trigger. Scary thin.
Last edited by JDW; 01/03/15 03:46 PM.
David
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1 |
Most people don't realize that the lugs on the rear of the lockplates absorb most of the recoil. Loose locks or poor fitting here create a wedge and cause most of the cracks. bedding material at this location will stop the damage
I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6 |
Thanks...I'll take it apart when I get it and see what's going on, taking some pictures as I go. This gun is nothing special just a basic field 12 gauge. Been wanting to try something like this and it seems to be a perfect candidate.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,720 Likes: 48
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,720 Likes: 48 |
Pictures would be great. Also if you have never taken an L.C. Smith apart, to the uninitiated, the top lever spring can be very hard to put back and many gunsmiths do not like working on them for this reason.
David
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 61 Likes: 6 |
JDW, Thanks for the heads-up.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Thanks...I'll take it apart when I get it and see what's going on, taking some pictures as I go. This gun is nothing special just a basic field 12 gauge. Been wanting to try something like this and it seems to be a perfect candidate. One of the neat things about project guns, this one'll be very special to you afterwards. Regards Ken
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405 |
The photos are a good illustration. Side photos don't really show much, but when looking at the front, you see where the issue is. Thin wood and not much of it. I think that of all the American sidelock (or side plate) guns, the ones least likely to get stock head splits are the Lefevers. This being that since their design is technically a side plate box lock, there is more wood behind the action than the other makers. Granted, they have their own issues, like those thin top fingers breaking and their wrists breaking.
B.Dudley
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