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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
This measurement is something I've never heard before. Perhaps someone i.e. Rocketman can explain. Thanks.
"unmounted swing effort and mounted swing effort" This gets into physics and Newtonian Laws- best described in Gene Hill's book Shotgunner's Notebook, and the also late, great Mike McIntosh went into it with David Trevallion in their "Shotgun Technicana"-- If you are a pragmatic shooter, as I consider myself to be, that "Machts Nicht"- if it fits and has the slight muzzle weight forward I do best with afield, then old Ike Newton can sit on his ass all day in an apple orchard and do his time studies--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Well....it's an old 'selling trick' that dealers use. They don't bother listing details because they WANT you to have to call them so they have a chance to sink their hook into you.
Greg, You nailed it! They aren't lying in their devious minds if they do not disclose faults and a buyer doesn't ask. Yup- sorts like lawyers (Philadelphia ones are at the top of that game) and of course, politicians-
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 37
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 37 |
An interesting topic. I recently almost paid for an older Remington side by side in Washington State. The seller was or is Cabelas. The gun looked good to me but after I consulted with this forum I found the fore end was not original to the gun so I did not purchase the firearm. Our knowledgeable forum individuals make this site very valuable. What concerns me about of some so called gun brookers is their lack of knowledge regarding the safety of a older firearm. I bought two Baker hammer guns that were off face, pitted barrels etc. They were both very cheap as they should be. What concerned me is the person that sold the guns thought they could be fired as long as they were "cleaned up". A very scary thought considering if an uneducated person particularly a young person would have bought this gun thinking it was okay to fire it. I'm glad I took both these guns out if circulation.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
An interesting topic. I recently almost paid for an older Remington side by side in Washington State. The seller was or is Cabelas. The gun looked good to me but after I consulted with this forum I found the fore end was not original to the gun so I did not purchase the firearm. Our knowledgeable forum individuals make this site very valuable. What concerns me about of some so called gun brookers is their lack of knowledge regarding the safety of a older firearm. I bought two Baker hammer guns that were off face, pitted barrels etc. They were both very cheap as they should be. What concerned me is the person that sold the guns thought they could be fired as long as they were "cleaned up". A very scary thought considering if an uneducated person particularly a young person would have bought this gun thinking it was okay to fire it. I'm glad I took both these guns out if circulation. Words of sagacity indeed, Sir. I grew up in the Queen City, may I ask where you reside (not your street address) in the great Buckeye State? Those Bakers are at best, wall hangers, and I am glad you took them "off the market". Ah, Cabela's- a few years ago in Dundee, MI- which is just "North of the border, so to speak" I bought a Parker PHE with Damascus/Twist barrels, after they had marked it down 50%- as few would buy it, due to concern about those barrels bursting. One of the "tire kickers" in the Gun Library told me that I had, in his opinion, just bought a "boat anchor" and asked if I bought it for a "Cabin wall-hanger"--All it needed was a new top lever V spring-nice shooter with RST 2.5" shells too!!~!
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
At Gander Mountain in Rockford, IL there is a Parker VH. It's a very worn gun with lot's of external pits, but someone cold blued over the barrels and the receiver. It's in very poor shape. Whoever graded/priced the gun decided that it must be in high condition and priced it at over $3000. It's preposterous, and shows a massive lack of knowledge about how to evaluate these older doubles.
Regards
Ken
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
I can believe that- here's another example of how goofy Cabela's Gun Libraries are- this "gem" is in their Louisville KY Library, priced at ONLY $1799- a GH 12 made in "1938-1942" with 26" Damascus barrels choked cyl. and cyl.-- Tells me this is a "hacksaw" special-- Another Cabela's Gun Library has a GHE "converted" to an extractor gun- because the water table was "miss-stamped" as a GHE instead of GH- it is a true extractor gun, there are NO ejector trip rods protruding from the nose of the receiver-- Boy Howdy, Cabela's must have their "gun experts" on LSD-- what a Fubared deal!!
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,755 Likes: 30 |
I list all that you mention. At least 99.9% of the time. Once in a while I mess up.
I even list choke in decimal dimensions.
Brian
LTC, USA Ret.
NRA Patron Member
AHFGCA Life Member
USPSA Life Member
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
This measurement is something I've never heard before. Perhaps someone i.e. Rocketman can explain. Thanks.
"unmounted swing effort and mounted swing effort" Happy to explain, David. The set of numbers I named is to gun handling as stock measurements are to gun fit; an objective description or specification. Each number tells you something about the relationship between gun and shooter. Just as there is no summative number for stock fit dimensions, there is no summative factor for handling. The concept of a gun possessing "balance" is a red herring. The set of handling numbers need to be used together. Weight tells of the effort needed to lift and carry the gun and how much recoil it will soak up. Balance (teeter-totter point to (front) trigger), along with hand spread, tells how the gun's weight will be proportioned between the shooters hands. Unmounted swing effort is the moment of inertia at the balance point of the gun. It tells you the amount of effort required to change the direction the gun is pointing. Weight and balance do not yield this number; it must be measured, for which purpose I have a handy-dandy little device. Mounted swing effort is the same type number but is calculated for the gun if rotating around the butt. Once MOI at balance (center of gravity) is known, MOI at any point on the gun can be calculated. Does that sufficiently answer your question? If you care to ask questions or discuss further, post back and we will discuss to your delight. DDA
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