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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 136
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 136 |
I think shotgunners look the other way sometimes, because the sometimes the folks that are waving the guns around a little carelessly are the loudest and have the most assertive personalities. I think if the club folks in general let them get away with it, then it's probably better to just move on. Righteous as someone might feel, it's not always practical to cut through the clubs' pecking order. It may not be practical, but still worth trying if someone were up for it. Look the other way? Safety is safety and it is everyone's responsibility. Accidendents are preventable. I don't want to see anyone hurt, I don't want to shoot around unsafe people, and I don't want to fuel the "shooting is unsafe" headline that will result from an accident. Speak up and correct unsafe conditions. It is your responsibility as a shooter. Al
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,935
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,935 |
I agree the broken open gun is safe but still, I never point or like to have pointed at me gun barrels.
I once shot a round of skeet at a range where the other shooters were a group of dicks who showed up with one gun for four guys. You could tell none of them had much experience, and the fact that they were more focused on 'having a good time' than shooting made me very nervous. Especially as the gun (a pump) was pointing all over as they handed it to each other and joked around. I stood far away and afterwards told the skeet-thrower guy who worked there he shoulda told them to watch it.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,754 Likes: 29
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,754 Likes: 29 |
having not been there and not seeing the totality of the circumstances I will comment as best as I can given the facts.
A gun broken open doesn't mean it is unloaded. I don't think anyone here would appreciate a semi automatic pistol with the slide locked back and the shooter pointing it at you would be appreciated or condoned. I know I wouldn't. Broken open/action open doesn't mean unloaded.
regardless of the fact that it is either gross negligence, ignorance or lack of training, you gave an accident waiting to happen. so, do what you feel is right.
my question is; why does anyone have to sweep other shooters with muzzles anyway?
The bottom line is, you cant control others but you can control yourself. So, If I am uncomfortable with the "prowess" of my fellow shooters (and its not a range I am in control of, otherwise I would remove them)and I see their behavior as negligent or indifferent I would tell them to watch their muzzle, if the shooter appeared to be inexperienced, I would talk to them off line and suggest tat they should watch how they handle their gun, . For the former I definitely would sinform the squad that I am not going to continue shooting at that time and leave the line. But if someone points a firearm at me, I am damn sure going to tell them not to do that again and make it clear as to my feelings and leave.
I would wait for another squad to go and sign up with that. I would also have a conversation with the range officer or club management. I would give them a description of the offending individual and suggest that maybe they need a little safety training.
Last edited by Brian; 07/23/15 01:19 PM.
Brian
LTC, USA Ret.
NRA Patron Member
AHFGCA Life Member
USPSA Life Member
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,119 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,119 Likes: 198 |
At our club, we have a mandatory shotgun safety course that every certified shooter must attend. Non certified shooters may shoot, but only under the supervision of a certified shooter. If a shooter or his "charge" make a safety mistake, all another shooter has to do is cite the pertinent rule to the offending shooter. If the offending shooter argues the point, he may have to take the class again, a not to pleasant result of bad behavior.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18 |
I agree with George, but I would have politely asked the person in the second instance to immediately refrain from the practice and to hold the muzzle pointing up after ejecting/removing the spent hulls before they turn around or move off the station w/the action either just barely open or closed.
In the first instance, there are people who were taught to keep the gun open, empty and to hold it by the stock rather than the barrels when being carried over the shoulder. Concern for sweaty hands and corrosion, perhaps? I honestly don't know. Protocol is different in some places, but either way the gun was safe. In the same breath, if it was being held in a manner where the muzzles were pointing directly at you, rather than down & it was pushing your alert button, I would not hesitate to politely say something and ask them to desist and in the process point out that it is very easy to put a dent in a barrel when carried in that manner and the safest way to protect them is to hold the open gun by the barrels. Personally, I'm not threatened by a broken empty gun held either way, its safe.
Having a gun open & over a shoulder with live cartridges in the chambers, whether carried by the barrels or the stock forward is not acceptable, EVER. Period!
In the 5-stand situation described where the person fired into the ground immediately after the preceding shooter shot his targets. I would have interceded and made it CLEAR that not only is the next shooter to wait until the preceding shooter shoots, but they may NOT load the gun or place a shell in it until the preceding shooter has finished shooting at his target(s). That is inclusive of keeping the gun's muzzle(s) pointed outward and in a safe direction at all times.
I think we have all seen the back of a trap house marked from where someone shot it at one time or another. Was it carelessness w/a release trigger or ?? Dunno, but whomever it was did understand to always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction when it got loaded, thankfully.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 175
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 175 |
It's very common for guys in our area shooting skeet to have their gun over their shoulder as you described. I understand your safety concern but if the gun is broke open it doesn't really bother me.
As you stated shooting USPSA they are very safety oriented. They best in any shooting discipline I have every shot. I shot IPSC for years.
Now if you want to see scary gun handling. You should come out to the range when our dept qualifies. Cops are the scariest with gun handling. They all think they are gun experts, run hot ranges etc. we just shot this week. I always keep a close eye on everything going on around me!!!!
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 714 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 714 Likes: 9 |
I shot cowboy action for a while, and I thought that their range rules and procedures were pretty good. With that said nothing is fool proof.
My son has been hunting and shooting clays since he was 7. I drilled gun safety with him every time out, and allowed absolutely no "passes" on safe gun handling. I think that sometimes when a person takes up shooting sports later in life there is no one who feels comfortable "treating them like a child" and correcting them on minor breaches in safety/etiquette.
My daughter turned 8 last month, and just today she broke her first few clay targets with a 28 gauge pump. Whether she decides to be a shooter/hunter or not when she gets older she will at least know how to safely handle a firearm.
CHAZ
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Sweeping other people with the muzzle of your gun is to me Totally Unacceptable. Doesn't matter whether it's loaded, empty, shut or open. When one is looking at the gun from the muzzle end it's not always easy to tell whether it's loaded or not.
Besides if a person gets in the habit of being careless where an "Empty" gun is pointing they will eventually do the same with a "loaded" one. "ANYONE" who picks up a gun needs to be responsible as to where it's pointing, "PERIOD".
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 350 |
I agree with George, but I would have politely asked the person in the second instance to immediately refrain from the practice and to hold the muzzle pointing up after ejecting/removing the spent hulls before they turn around or move off the station w/the action either just barely open or closed.
In the first instance, there are people who were taught to keep the gun open, empty and to hold it by the stock rather than the barrels when being carried over the shoulder. Concern for sweaty hands and corrosion, perhaps? I honestly don't know. Protocol is different in some places, but either way the gun was safe. In the same breath, if it was being held in a manner where the muzzles were pointing directly at you, rather than down & it was pushing your alert button, I would not hesitate to politely say something and ask them to desist and in the process point out that it is very easy to put a dent in a barrel when carried in that manner and the safest way to protect them is to hold the open gun by the barrels. Personally, I'm not threatened by a broken empty gun held either way, its safe.
Having a gun open & over a shoulder with live cartridges in the chambers, whether carried by the barrels or the stock forward is not acceptable, EVER. Period!
In the 5-stand situation described where the person fired into the ground immediately after the preceding shooter shot his targets. I would have interceded and made it CLEAR that not only is the next shooter to wait until the preceding shooter shoots, but they may NOT load the gun or place a shell in it until the preceding shooter has finished shooting at his target(s). That is inclusive of keeping the gun's muzzle(s) pointed outward and in a safe direction at all times.
[b][/b]
I think we have all seen the back of a trap house marked from where someone shot it at one time or another. Was it carelessness w/a release trigger or ?? Dunno, but whomever it was did understand to always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction when it got loaded, thankfully. [i][/i]In Virginia we do not have all day and all night to shoot a 5 Stand......If you have 5 shooters with O/Us or SXSs then 3 of those 5 shotguns should be loaded and ready to shoot....One will be empty because it was just fired and one will be getting re-loaded....The other 3 should be loaded and ready so the squad can shoot-shoot-shoot....You seem to be telling me you do not want the guy on station 2 to even load his shotgun until after the guy on station 1 has finished shooting..????...Maybe I did not understand you..????...IF I understood you correctly it would take forever to shoot a 5 Stand and the Gun Club Management would NOT be happy. I was in a registered skeet shoot in Colorado about 15 years ago and I was on a squad with some guys who were good shooters for their age, which is my age now, and the manager of the shoot complained to our squad that we were shooting to slow. I think I actually laughed out loud. Those guys were lucky to be shooting anything, they were lucky to be doing anything outdoors. We had one shooter in Colorado that shot skeet with the help of two full size crutches, he only had one good leg. We had another shooter that shot from a three legged stool, I think he had a bad back......We have now all seen or even know wheelchair bound shooters.....Anyway back to the talk about having the shotguns ready and loaded so that the five stand squad can keep the game moving and shoot-shoot-shoot-shoot maybe I did not understand what you were trying to say...... Good Shooting To You, Jent
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,558 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,558 Likes: 22 |
Up until a few years ago I had never shot a round of sporting clays. Shot a lot of skeet but not sporting clays. The first time I went to a sporting clays course I was by myself. The clays course was set up with automatic throwers with delay. Being naive at sporting clays (because I had never done it), at the first station I loaded my gun inside the shooter box but with the barrels inside the shooting box instead of hanging over the side. I passerby who was experienced was walking by and immediately dressed me down in no uncertain terms. Pretty ugly actually, but I certainly got the point, and the bottom line being I never made that mistake again ever.
Since that time I have come across other shooters who were experienced and were doing similar "wrong" things and I point out those mistakes more of as a coach then anything else.
Back to your original question, I see number 1 and 2 all the time from folks walking to and from the clays range and it doesn't bother me because I can see the action is broken open. On 3 and 4 I'd be doing some talking to folks.
Last edited by tut; 07/26/15 06:19 AM.
foxes rule
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