December
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
4 members (Buzz, AlanD, DSchrank, SKB), 68 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,385
Posts511,242
Members14,105
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2

I am not sure where I copied this, but would like to know if anyone knows the approximate year.
The reason is the President is George Livermore, the V.P. is L.P. Smith. L.P. would be a son of Leroy as he passed away in 1902.

The history I have is that in 1880 Leroy H. Smith, older brother of Lyman C. Smith of the later L.C. Smith Gun Co. Syracuse, N.Y. and George Livermore, their brother-in-law along with William H. Baker left recently acquired (1877) Smith Baker Gun Co. to go to Ithaca and start the Ithaca Gun Co.

I know some of the sons ran the company as can be seen on the ad. In later years one of Leroy's grandson's Sheldon Monroe Smith was instrumental in launching of the Model 37 and it was his idea to name it the "Featherweight". He became president in 1955 and held that title till the company was sold in 1967.

George S. Livermore at the age of 100 still went to work every day at Ithaca and passed away at age 104, May 5, 1950.

Last edited by JDW; 09/29/15 10:40 AM.

David


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,646
Likes: 11
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,646
Likes: 11
Charles Larson won the GAH in 1917, John Henry in 1918, Elmer Starner won the GAH in 1925 and C.A. "Sparrow" Young won the GAH in 1926. The next time Ithaca won the GAH was when Mose Newman did the honors in 1929. So, that letterhead is probably from 1926 to 1929 time frame.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
David, Your early history is a little confused. Can you access a copy of the Ithaca book that lays it all out??

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2
Dave, thanks for the information as it helps determining what year these men were in office.

Walt, the information I put down was from my research I did on the Internet.

What early history is confusing?


David


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
Well David, its a long story. To start, the property transferred from the previous owners to Nancy and William Baker in January of 1883. The early payroll records start a little later (I have them somewhere) so the 1880 date is wrong even though the company stated it. Actually, the company made othe errors in dates, etc. It was LeRoy Smith, W.Baker, James VanEtta and ?? McIntyre who started the business. George came in 1887 after leaving the LC Smith Co., Maker of the Baker Gun. And it went on from there--Too much for this old codger to retype. That is why I wrote the book!
ps It was Louis Smith who pioneered the M-37.
Read the book and less internet baloney.

Last edited by Walter C. Snyder; 09/29/15 02:26 PM.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 2
Walter, the information about some I put there was from ancestory.com Descendants of John Smith. It lists all the children and grandchildren.

The part about George S. Livermore is from his obituary.
This is copied from it.
Birth: Nov. 15, 1845
Lisle
Broome County
New York, USA
Death: May 5, 1950
Ithaca
Tompkins County
New York, USA

ITHACA MAN, 104, ACTIVE TO DEATH

George Livermore Founded Gun Company in 1886 and Ran It Until Recently

ITHACA, N. Y., May 5 (AP) - George S. Livermore, 104-year-old chairman of the board of the Ithaca Gun Company, died tonight at his home. At the age of 100 he still went to his office daily. He kept an active eye on the organization he helped to found in 1880, until his death.
Born at Lisle, N. Y., Mr. Livermore lived there until 1880, when he went to Syracuse and where he became affiliated with the L. C. Smith Company, then a gun manufacturer.
In 1886 he formed the Ithaca Gun Company with W. H. Baker, Dwight McIntyre and L. H. Smith. The firm opened its plant in this city. It since has become one of the leading manufacturers of precision-built guns. It is noted for the number of elderly craftsmen among its 380 employees. More than eighty employees have been with the firm for twenty years and many have employment records of forty and fifty years.
Mr. Livermore had been a principal stockholder of the company since 1903, when the last of the partners died or retired.
His principal hobby of late years, he often had said, was "smoking a good cigar with friends." In earlier years, he enjoyed horseback riding.
Surviving are a son, Paul S. Livermore; a daughter, Mrs. Nelson S. Genung; two grandchildren, two great-grandchildren and a great-great-grandchild.

New York, New York
The New York Times newspaper
Saturday, May 6, 1950
Page 15, Column 4



Family links:
Parents:
Charles Henry Livermore (1812 - 1881)
Sarah Melinda Guernsey Livermore (1812 - 1894)

Spouse:
Ellen Julia Smith Livermore (1847 - 1905)*

Siblings:
Charles Henry Livermore (1843 - 1926)*
George S. Livermore (1845 - 1950)
Adaline Livermore (1847 - 1916)*

*Calculated relationship

Some from Amcestory.com about Leroy H. Smith

Leroy Smith first appeared in the 1878-79 Syracuse City Directory and, along with Lewis (father) and Lyman, was listed as being associated with "W.H. Baker and Company, Manufacturers of Baker's Patented Shotgun." Lewis and Lyman seem to have quit the lumber business at the point as that operation disappears from the Directory. Leroy Smith lists his occupation in 1879-80 as "gun maker”.
The W.H. Baker and Company’s location was listed as being in Lisle, N.Y. in 1867, a short distance from Syracuse. They made double barrel and 3 barrel guns. The distinguishing feature of the 3-barrel was that the opening for the breech was a lever outside the trigger guard.
Patent date of December 21, 1877 shows him now in Syracuse.

More about Leroy.

Leroy became visibly active in the daily operations of the Gun Company by 1886-87, when he and George Livermore (Leroy’s brother-in-law, he married Ellen Julia Smith) located in Ithaca and purchased the Baker interests. Part of Leroy's initial activity was the patenting of four hammerless shotgun designs during the 1887-89 era, resulting in the hammerless model being introduced in the 1888 catalogue. It is uncertain whether Leroy was the total inventive genius behind these designs, but it is reasonable safe to assume that it was he who sensed that the demand for hammerless guns would be increasing, and it would be essential for the Ithaca Gun Company to participate in this emerging market.

Also, In 1883 after Baker left with Leroy, the tops of guns now had L.C. Smith maker of Baker Guns Syracuse, N.Y. Before that it was just W.H. Baker & Co.

This is a 3 barrel gun that was owned by someone I know and auctioned of at Julia's It was presented to Leroy H. Smith from his brother L.C. Smith for starting the Ithaca Gun Company

Walter you know about this gun. It was a presentation grade to Leroy H. Smith from L.C. Smith when Leroy went to form Ithaca.



Last edited by JDW; 09/29/15 06:01 PM.

David


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,646
Likes: 11
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,646
Likes: 11
It does seem that at one time the company believed its start was in 1883, as they numbered their 1933 retail catalogues No. 50 and their 1934 retail catalogues No. 51. Then they dropped back to thinking their founding was 1880, probably for the two W.H. Baker patents, No. 228,020 granted May 25, 1880, and No. 228,165 granted June 1, 1880, which applied to their first guns. They stuck with that wrong date --


Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 3
With all due respect to Ancestry.com, George and LeRoy didn't start the Ithaca Gun Co. It was LeRoy, Baker and the 2 investors. George didn't appear on the Ithaca scene until 1887, about the time Baker went back to Syracuse.
BTW Syracuse is about 80 miles ish from Lisle. I have spent hours at both places during my research days. Many hours in county clerk's offices, historical societies, libraries, etc reading street directories, searching state and federal census records, deed records, etc. All well before the internet days.
There is no substitute for reading the original data--better than some ones interpretation posted on the internet.

Last edited by Walter C. Snyder; 09/30/15 12:59 AM.

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.038s Queries: 30 (0.013s) Memory: 0.8419 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-12-09 09:36:58 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS