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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
What a schmuck-a-della ad- The sellerdoesn't know from Shinola about Fox guns- #2 or 2#-either way- doesn't mean a second barrel set- it is a weight stamp--Fox didn't mark frame size, as did Parker, or have two basic frames per gauge, R and FW, as did LC Smith- but they did mark most of their barrels with a stamped number- 1 through 4- I have two AH Fox shotguns- A 20 gauge Sterlingworth made in Utica in 1933- 28" barrels with a 4# stamp- But my 12 grade B with Krupp Fluid Steel barrels has no weight stamp number-and are an even 29 &1/2" long- full choke in each tube, uncut-Strange!! I wouldn't go pronouncing Schmuck-ness just yet. The location of the single number 2 (below the serial number) does, in fact indicate that this is a second barrel. The weight stamps on Fox barrels are on the tube itself, immediately ahead of the barrel flats ON EACH TUBE. The weight stamp digit is also always stamped with the number in line with the axis of the bore. The weight stamp is never found on the barrel flats. It is very common to find Fox barrels with no visible weight stamps since the tubes were stamped before they were joined and filed up. Very often the weight stamps were simply obliterated during this process. Dewey nailed it. BTW, there is no order card on this gun per the Fox folks on the collector site. What is an order card? Is it worthwhile to get one for my two AH Fox shotguns? Is there a difference in order cards from the Philadelphia made Fox guns, as to the later ones (like my 20 gauge) mad in Utica under the aegis of Savage-Stevens gruppen? Both my Fox guns have double triggers and ejectors, a hunting pal has a 16 DE Fox made in Philly with the Kautsky (Pollack?) designed single selective trigger- Mr. Vicknair stated problems with that design-best of all are the Elmer Miller designed SSt'd on the Ithaca NID guns--IMO
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 76
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 76 |
Fox, an order card is an original card with all the information of the order for that particular gun. They are maintained by the Fox Collectors Club, you are allowed 1 free look up a year with membership. They are missing some cards from the early guns and I am not sure about the Savage guns. Some of the cards will have some interesting details,dimensions, etc for very special orders. Others such as the one for my XE just have bare info as it was ordered for stock for the EK Tryon Company. 
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
The original Fox production cards are maintained by Savage Arms Corp. Contacting the Savage historian and getting a letter is the best way to get the most complete information on your gun. For $45 Graded or $35 Sterlingworth (last prices I've seen quoted) you can get a factory letter on most any Ansley H. Fox shotgun (Philadelphia or Utica) from
John T. Callahan
Arms Historian
P.O. Box 82
Southampton, MA 01073.
The A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. has photo copies of the existing production cards for the graded guns, but not the Sterlingworths. Back in 1991, some individuals including the late R.W. Harris talked their way into Savage and made themselves photocopies of the cards for the graded guns. They only photocopied the backs of at best 10% of the cards. The late Mr. Harris gave his set to the association a few years before his passing. The up side of requesting a look up for A.H. Fox Collectors Association, Inc. members is we email it quick. A letter from John is a 4 to 8 week deal. John is a retired employee and this historian thing is a side-line.
FWIW If one looks closely at the set in question, it is the number 2 set of barrels, but the number 1 forearm.
Last edited by Researcher; 11/07/15 05:53 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,893 Likes: 110 |
"Meat in the Pot" has its 3 at the barrel flat end of the - FLUID - STEEL - KRUPP - ESSEN - 3 line. There doesn't really seem to be any consistency in exactly where the barrel weight numbers are and how they are oriented, if they appear at all.
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