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As I understand it, if one wanted their CSMC built M21 to say "Winchester" on it there was a rather large copyright fee ( or whatever it is called ) that had to be paid to the Winchester people. At the time one could get a CSMC M21 for say $10,000 and one saying Winchester on it for $50,000. I hasten to add that I certainly may be incorrect about this.

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Buzz, I've previously read what Pauline's said, but CSMC's statements about their license rights and info in their catalogs persuade me that the crux of what I wrote is right -- just unsure of remembering details or if it's current. I have the Cody info for the Winchester-authorized work done on my 21 that was provided to them by CSMC.

I realize she left there with a lot of records, but there's no reason to expect a Winchester engraver would be privy to negotiations and details of the agreement between Winchester and CSMC.

I've said nothing about relative quality or value, buying or not, leave me out of your argument with "you guys".

Jay

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i for one regardless of what anyone says...thinks that new o&u 21 idea is pretty slick.


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Originally Posted By: btdtst
As I understand it, if one wanted their CSMC built M21 to say "Winchester" on it there was a rather large copyright fee ( or whatever it is called ) that had to be paid to the Winchester people. At the time one could get a CSMC M21 for say $10,000 and one saying Winchester on it for $50,000. I hasten to add that I certainly may be incorrect about this.


Not sure of the terminology either, falls into the area of licensing fees and royalties.

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Originally Posted By: Bob Cash
Originally Posted By: buzz
Haha there Dick. We are all entitled to our opinion just like you. By the way, the C7 Corvette is made by General Motors, so it is not a replica. The CSMC Model 21 is made by Connecticut Shotgun and not Winchester, and is therefore a replica. And, by the tone of your condescending statement and defense of CSMC, I'm sure you paid BIG money for one their high dollar and overpriced replicas.


Parker Bros. shotguns not made in Connecticut are not Parkers?
Foxes not made in Philadelphia are not Foxes?
CSMC doesn't build "Winchesters", they do however build Model 21's

Sorry Buzz but you sound like "sour grapes" to me.
I don't recall anyone asking YOU to buy THEM a gun.
Perhaps if you trade in your baseball cards, cash in your S&H Green stamps,
have a bake sale and conduct a car wash you too could have some of that "BIG money".
Until such a time, maybe you could lighten up a bit on those who choose to spend THEIR hard earned money as THEY see fit.


Thank you very much!
I've been a member of this forum for a long time, spent a lot of time and money learning Winchester & CSMC Model 21's as well as Superposed and a few other brands.
I put my money where my mouth is. I can't just afford to throw my money it away.
In my intial response all I Posted was to consider a CSMC Model 21.
What ticked me off was the standard crap about CSMC and their Model 21's which has no bearing on the original query.
That's why my Post was so vitriolic.
If we can just stop these standard 'knee jerk' Posts whenever CSMC is invoked, I will enjoy this forum again.
I understand the thinking of some about 'replicas. but don't agree and don'tt wish to have to read this stuff every time CSMC in mentioned.-Richard

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Originally Posted By: buzz
I believe you are wrong re the license. Ask Paulene Muerelle. She worked at Winchester. Personally, I could give a hoot how you guys spend your money. If you read my earlier post I said personally I would not do it. And like you, I am entitled to my opinion and I said before I wouldn't even buy a box of shotgun shells from CSMC. I meant it then and I mean it now, personally.


I called OLIN many years ago and spoke to the individual in charge of Licensing the Winchester Brand and confirmed what Gunflint Charlie Posted in this Thread. Posted.
There are also many Winchester branded Model 21's made by CSMC on the market.
The Winchester Grand Royal sets were also made by CSMC.
I know Pauline very well from my Forum, she is a good source of knowledge about what went on at the end. But the Licensing information I obtained directly from OLIN is fact. I suspect since FN now sells Winchester's, that they have the same License for the Winchester brand from Olin.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion but not to broadcast it every time CSMC appears in print without having to read rebuttals. so if you stop your diatribe against CSMC, I won't rebut!-Richard.

Last edited by Dick_dup1; 01/02/16 09:59 AM.
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Originally Posted By: btdtst
As I understand it, if one wanted their CSMC built M21 to say "Winchester" on it there was a rather large copyright fee ( or whatever it is called ) that had to be paid to the Winchester people. At the time one could get a CSMC M21 for say $10,000 and one saying Winchester on it for $50,000. I hasten to add that I certainly may be incorrect about this.

You are almost correct, I tried to have an individual order from CSMC licensed to carry the Winchester brand. Tony told me the only license he had at that time was for the Grand Royal which was $50k at that time. A standard CSMC was $10,000 but it would be equivalent to A Winchester Custom Shop 'Custom Grade'.
I passed on the Grand Royal and instead chose a Baby frame Grand American 30" which because of the 5# 13oz weight in 28 gauge, i like much better for actual hunting.-Richard

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I you go to the OLIN website,
http://www.olin.com
You will see a tab for Winchester http://www.winchester.com/Pages/Home.aspx and under that tab, a tab for Licensing http://www.winchester.com/Products/Pages/licensed-products.aspx which refers you to the Licensing of the Winchester brand for firearms. Winchester ammunition is still controlled by OLIN.
I don't know if CSMC still retains a Winchester License and it really doesn't matter anymore.-Richard

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quality and skilled craftsmanship are all im concerned about these days.
if it balances like the old ones....i enjoy it.


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For whatever it's worth, the latest Galazan's/CSMC catalog I've seen continues to list Win M-21 parts and gunsmithing services, and still states that CSMC is the Winchester authorized service center for the Winchester M-21. Of course this isn't evidence that they're still licensed to build new Winchester M-21s.

Jay

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