doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

======== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns FOOTNOTES =======

*27 1856-1858: Reilly Extant Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

. . . . .*27a - SN 10054 - The oldest Reilly center-break gun so far found late summer 1856 (photo "the salesroom")

. . . . . . . . . .Case – with medals

. . . . . . . . . .Receiver/barrel flats

. . . . . . . . . .Rib

. . . . . . . . .10054 Label with the post 1855 medals


. . . . .*27b - SN 10128 - The second oldest existing Reilly pin-fire circa December 1856. (photo from Holts)


. . . . .*27c - SN 10355 (address unknown) - mid-1857. No photo

. . . . .*27d - SN 1065510655 - March 1858. (Photos from private New Zealand owner)




. . . . .*27e - 27 Dec 1857, New Army List


====== *27 1856-1858: Extant Reilly pin-fire Guns END FOOTNOTES =====

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns TEXT ============

*28 1858-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

E.M. Reilly participated in the April 1858 trial pitting muzzle-loaders against breech-loaders run by "The Field."*28a His breech-loader handed a W.W. Greener muzzle-loader an historic defeat in this trial; Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."*28b

By spring 1858 Reilly was heavily invested in building SxS pinfire rifles, not a new concept for him; the oldest extant Reilly is a 15 bore rifle, but certainly with an added emphasis.*28c

By fall 1858 Reilly, along with Lang and Blanche, the original proponents of break-action guns in UK, was reported to be "overdone with orders for his breech-loaders" per "The Field"*28d; The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition.*28e "The Field" commented in the same aricle that at this time ¾ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.*28f

Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, all allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field."*28g

Comment: Several of the most prestigious London gunmakers then involved in making breech-loader pinfires did not enter the 1859 trials. This was commented on by "The Field."*28h[/b]. These gunmakers would have been competing against "the country makers" - the "hoi Paloi" - and had everything to lose - their reputation - and nothing to gain. One supposes this was a form of commercial censorship at the time. But Reilly was there! And so was the press ("The Field").

However, at this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch;*28i Whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the sketch could well be a center-break Beriinger-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unkown).*28j

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns END TEXT ============

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES ============

*28 1856-1860: Reilly Develops and Trials Break Action Pin-Fire Guns

. . . . .*28a 17 April 1858 “The Field” trial:


. . . . .*28b Greener later tried to denigrate breech-loaders in his 1858 book, and was called out in the most definitive fashion by "The Field."




. . . . .*28c Reilly building pinfire rifles: 13 March 1858, “The Field”


. . . . .*28d Overdone with orders


. . . . .*28e The article specifically praised Reilly’s 16 bore pin-fire used in the competition.


. . . . .*28f. "The Field" commented in the same aricle that at this time ¾ of the orders for new guns in London were for breech loaders.


======== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW ==========

========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns FOOTNOTES CONT ============

. . . . .*28g. Reilly provided 4 guns for the follow-on muzzle-loader/break-action breech-loader trial run by the "The Field" in July 1859, all allegedly built on the "lever under fore-arm" English standard single-bite "Lefaucheux/Lang" principle per a sketch in "The Field." *25
. . . . . . . . . .Results:

. . . . . . . . . .sketch of one of the Reilly's at the 1859 trial:

. . . . . . . . . .SN 14469 – hinged fore-end


. . . . .28h 17 July 1859, "the Field" - Purdey, Boss, Haris Holland dodge the challenge:


. . . . .28i However, at this time Reilly also was making guns with the under-lever located under the trigger guard Beringer-style per a late 1859 book sketch;
Book Reilly Beringer Here is an 1860 book which has a sketch of such a Reilly. Sketch was probably made in 1859.


. . . . .28j whether one of these guns participated in the trials is unknown. (The gun pictured in the sketch could well be a center-break Beringer-style pin-fire SxS shotgun sold at a recent auction – serial number unknown).
U-L sold at auction: 1859-60 Beringer style Lefaucheaux center-break gun, and obviously a classy one made in 315 Oxford Street.


========== *28 !858-1860: Reilly trials his guns END FOOTNOTES ============

It,s a pinfire...

============ *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis TEXT ============
Note: this analysis is based on the documented information above:

*29 Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:
-- SN 10054 (Late summer 1856),
-- SN 10128 (December 1856),
-- SN 10355 (mid 1857), and
-- SN 10655 (March 1858):

. . .-- 10054 & 10128 late summer and December 1856: In fall 1856, there were virtually no outworkers in London who could have made 10054 or 10128. Both guns are early Lang/Lefaucheux forward under-lever pin-fire SxS's.
. . . . . .- Lang was making pin-fire Lefaucheux style breech loaders but not for the trade (perhaps he had made and sold some 40 pin fire guns over two years by this time and that is probably a high estimate; per his serial numbering system, Lang was making about 75 guns total a year from 1830-1860...perhaps by 1855 100 a year). Per Lang's own pamphlet he began to make such guns in January 1854. He did not advertise them. Yet Lang won a publicized gold medal at the 1855 Paris Universelle for his breech loader - his work on the concept was not a secret.
. . . . . .- E.C. Hodges, the original designer of Lang's break-action gun, had completed his apprenticeship in 1852 and was making center-break actions for a dozen different makers including prestige names by 1858-60, labeled with his stamp on the water table - not found on Reilly's.*29a
. . . . . .- Per above Blanche claimed he made his first pin-fire breech-loader in 1856, this after traveling to Paris to buy a center-break, under-lever around trigger-guard, Berringer style pin-fire in late 1855 after the Paris Universelle and reverse engineering it (as detailed above). (Note: The first known Blanche advertisement in the UK press for a center-break pin-fire was in 1858).*29b Again as detailed above Blanche explained in his later book that at the time the change-over from muzzle-loaders entailed a massive alteration in the manufacturing processes for guns from a breech-plug to a lump, from locks to actions, etc. - this in the face of a very conservative clientele.
. . . . . .- Reilly, thus was on his own when he obviously embarked on a similar path to that of Blanche in 1855 or early 1856 to manufacture and sell the French invention.

. . .-- 10355 mid-1857: Similar conclusions (without additional details on the gun). Note: By mid 1857 there were likely less than 150 British built pin-fires being shot in the UK. Reilly, however, per the 26 June 1857 edition of "The Field" above, was building 100 pin-fire "spec" (speculation- i.e. "awaiting a buyer") guns (a long-time Reilly practice). This gun 10355 was probably one of them.

. . .-- 10655, March 1858: This is a Lefaucheux-style 12 bore SxS shotgun pin-fire breech-loader: At the time it was numbered, March 1858, believe there were still very few gun-making firms or gun parts makers in general in all of UK that could have made it or portions of it – barrels & actions, and it's twins submitted by Reilly for the April 1858 "The Field" breech-loader vs muzzle-loader trials.
. . . . . .- Although London gun-makers by 1858 were getting involved in experimenting with the concepts and had begun in some case building a few guns (indicating an infrastructure in London was being created), again, the two firms, who could possibly have made 10655 in spring 1858 were Lang and Blanche. However, Lang and Blanche had orders aplenty themselves - they likely had no time to manufacture for "the trade."
. . . . . .- As for Birmingham by the follow-on July 1859 trials a Birmingham gunsmith "Elliott" submitted two "patent" pin-fire break-actions for the trials,*29c; (their recoil per "The Field" was so severe that they were virtually unshootable). Yet the first main-stream Birmingham-made center-break gun or the manufacture of center-break actions was still several years in the future. Samuel Breedon c1861 may have been one of the first.*29d

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly lock, stock and barrel; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

(These conclusions are per historical data currently available on the early origins of UK center-break pin-fires. For the record Haris Holland made his first breech loader in 1857 although he advertised them in Sep 1856; Boss in 1858; Purdey in late 1858 or early 1859.)

========== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis END TEXT ==========

========== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis FOOTNOTES ==========

*29 Observation re "retailer" vs "gunmaker" from an analysis of extant 1856-58 Reilly pin-fires:

. . . . .*29a Hodges making and signing actions: Two from Steve Nash's pin fire line (Photos by Steve Nash).
. . . . . . . . . .Neibour with a Hodges action Stamp

. . . . . . . . . .Blissett with a Hodges action:


. . . . .*29b14 Jul 1858, "The Field" - first known ad by Blanche mentioned breech-loaders


. . . . .*29c Birmingham pin-fires at the 1859 trials


. . . . .*29d Samuel Breedon (Breeden), Birmingham breech loading action maker, 1861.
. . . . . . . . . .Breedon Stamp

. . . . . . . . . .1861 Census. Living in Saltey Washwood area. Wife Charlotte. 3 daughters Emma, Charlotte, Luisa. Occupation listed as “Breech Loading action manufacturer and master employing 8 men.” Likely one of the first Birmingham pin-fire action makers.



======== *29 Reilly - "retailer" vs "gunmaker" - analysis END FOOTNOTES ========

===== Pause 4 Reilly making pin-fires 1855-1859 REQUEST COMMENTS=============

This is an academic investigation. There are gun experts on this line who have some strong opinions about Reilly, So, before we go further...and this study will be delving into Reilly made breech-loading rifles from this period .... please add your comments, objections, and document same...to the below statement. We all need clarity on this very important UK gun-making period. If I've got it wrong..please correct the record:

. . .-- Thus, the most logical conclusion is that the extant Reilly pin-fires from this era 10054, 10128, 10355, and 10655 were indeed made by Reilly lock, stock and barrel; no one else could have done it for him. It well may be that 10054 is the earliest UK made pin-fire center-break gun in existence.

Or if one is convinced that Reilly was only a "RETAILER" during this period, please post the evidence.

======== Pause 4 Reilly making pin-fires 1855-1859 END REQUEST================

You need psychiatric help....bad

==================== On ===================

Well, there has been one quite educational response (very Tennesseean) to the above assertion. i.e. that Reilly built those four pin-fire breech loaders from 1856-1858.

I'd like to go back to the obvious though. Without this line of research, no-one would have a clue about when those four guns were made. Just dating the guns and labels was a major academic accomplishment. and was the initial goal of this line.

The next few posts will deal with
-- Reilly and the post Enfield 1853 percussion rifle,
-- Reilly and breech loading military style rifles 1855-1860,
-- the 1858 opening of a new manufacturing facility at 315 Oxford Street with an attached shooting gallery
-- several changes in the names of the company
-- changes in the labels...

Taking the story up to 1861

- and take a look at the paragraph added to the Crystal Palace exhibition; I decided I could not leave out the enormous impact Colt had on British manufacturing. It effected Reilly later on.

And as always if someone believes Reilly was only a RETAILER during this period...please post the evidence.

==================== On ===================