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Argo44 Offline OP
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====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES ======

*42 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition

. . . . .*42a. Reilly 12 gauge rifle pin-fire cartridge dated 1855 probably imported from France. (photo Aaron Newcomer)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42b A young Reilly employee was designated to do this task to assure all guns had equal charges. .*42c
. . . . . . . . . .09 Jul 1859, The Field
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42c The principle UK maker of shells and ammunition Eley did market pin-fire shells as early as 1857. *42
. . . . . . . . . .02 Jan 1858, “The Field”. 1st known ad for Eley breech loading shells.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .01 May 1858,”The Field” - 1st Eley ad specifically for a breech-loading shotgun cartridge.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42d Early Eley cartridges received bad reviews per letters to the Field. Reilly urged to import hulls fron France
. . . . . . . . . .27 Nov 1858 “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42e EM Reilly complained about hide-bound practices of the UK cartridge establishment and the inability of UK ammunition makers to manufacture pin-fire shells.
. . . . . . . . . .26 Dec 1857, “The Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42f Summer 1857 Reilly was guarenteeing access to ammuntion for gentlemen who bought his pin-fires*42g
. . . . . . . . . .26 Jun 1857
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42g French shells could be found in every town in UK and were clearly predominent.*42
. . . . . . . . . .1859, Shotgun and Sporting Rifle, by Stonehenge, p.287
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42h Reilly’s first advertisement for his own cartridges may have appeared in 1859 when he began advertising “Patent Cartridges”. Reilly never specifically advertised “Reilly cartridge” but “patent cartridges may (or may not) apply to his own shells.”
. . . . . . . . . .21 June 1859, “Bell’s Life”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES CONT BELOW======

Last edited by Argo44; 05/11/22 08:21 PM.

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====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition FOOTNOTES CONT ======

. . . . .*42i Sketch of Reilly cartridge from Volunteer Rifle book published 1860 (sketch from 1859) with "Reilly, London":
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42j Reilly 15 head stamping with "E.M. Reilly & Co." (photo Aaron Newcomer)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42k 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .22 Jun 1861, The Field re centripetal machine, cartridges and first known ad for Jones Underlever.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .1962 ad
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42l 1890s Reilly crimping patents
REILLY, E M 6413 15/04/1891 Loading cartridges.
REILLY, E M 5018 15/03/1892 Loading cartridges.

. . . . .*42m Reilly cartridges found in an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand.
. . . . . . . . . .“Te Hoe Shore Whaling Station Artefact Assemblage” by J, Harris, 2005
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42n Reilly cartridges found Saskatchewan.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*42o Cost of pinfire cartridges in 1859:
. . . . . . . . . .02 March 1859, “the Field”
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *40 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition END FOOTNOTES ======

Last edited by Argo44; 04/12/22 09:19 PM.

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Originally Posted by Argo44
Thanks Alan D., Reilly probably purchased WIN SN 10808 from Kerr and engraved and marketed it. First advertisement for Kerr as Sole Winchester agent is 28 November 1874, "The Field."
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Very interesting. I tried to post a picture of a James Kerr trade label advertising the fact they had the Winchester agency for the UK, but I always have difficulty in posting photos on this website for some reason.

When Colt closed their London Agency in 1912/13 the London armory Co took over as the Colt agent in the UK.
This with the Winchester agency was a complimentary pairing.

I don't find the 4 inch group group at 100 yards to bad. this must have been the Model 1873 Winchester with ordinary iron sights. Also, if the barrel was clean on the first shot there would be a degree of fouling by the last shot, due to the black powder.

Regards

Alan

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======== *43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes TEXT =======

*43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes

Business anthologies at this time identified EM Reilly as both gun and pistol manufacturers and sword/cutlery makers.*43a Reilly's name has been found engraved on bayonettes and swords from the era. Bsyonettes were a part of the Yoemanry Militia “kit” and Reilly incuded a bayonette to go with each militia rifle he sold, enough volume to make a subsidiary business profitable.*43b

One surviving Reilly bayonette is a slightly modified version of the “official” “sword bayonettes” attached to Gen. Jacob’s patent SxS’s which fired an explosive bullet; Reilly made the guns under license (see chapter 30 above).*43c

====== *43 Early 1860’s: Reilly and Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes END TEXT =====

Last edited by Argo44; 06/05/22 09:06 AM.

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======== *43 Reilly Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes FOOTNOTES ========

*43 Reilly swords, bayonettes:

. . . . . *43a 1864 – Williams’s Manufacturers’ Directory: Reilly listed under “Swords: Cutlers Manufacturers” section:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*43b Standard pattern bayonet and Volunteer rifle:
. . . . . . . . . .22 Dec 1860, “Volunteer Services Gazette” - Note SN EMR 11396: This number no doubt is he serial number of the Enfield which the bayonettes went with.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*43c Sword Bayonette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
Gen Jacob’sSword Bayonette
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *43 Reilly Cutlery, Swords, Bayonettes END FOOTNOTES ======

Last edited by Argo44; 05/13/22 09:02 PM.

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========== *44 Reilly accessories TEXT ==========

*44 Reilly Accessories

Reilly like many London gunmakers marketed numerous accessories for his guns. Reilly devoted a lot of time advertising for the Yoemanry Militia, organized in the late 1850’s and offered everything from knapsacks to cartridge belts.*44a A unit he outfitted, the Princesses’ Own, won acclaim for their showmanship, marching and appearance.*44b

Reilly sold everything associated with the trade, cartridge boxes, cartridge belts, bullet molds, likely the products of small cottage industries within London.*44c

======== *44 Reilly accessories END TEXT ========

Last edited by Argo44; 06/05/22 09:07 AM.

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======== *44 Reilly accessories FOOTNOTES ========

*45 Reilly Accessories

. . . . .*44a
. . . . . . . . . .Dec 1859, Illustrated London News:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*44b :
. . . . . . . . . .08 Feb 1861, Volunteer Services Gazette. Belts,, pouches etc.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
. . . . . . . . . .25 March 1861, Bell’s Life – cases, fittings
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

. . . . .*44c Extant Accessories:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

====== *44 Reilly accessories END FOOTNOTES ======

Last edited by Argo44; 05/13/22 09:04 PM.

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Gene, just posted on Youtube.
Comparing an inexpensive BLNE Reilly vs. expensive SLE Grant. Interesting discussion and shooting.


Gil

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Thanks Gil, I don't have that Reilly in my library; I've sent them a message asking for SN and address on the rib. Very interesting video...and just plain pleasant!

In my database of photos of almost 600 Reilly's - 40 boxlocks....there is not one other "scroll-back" action. There is not one other Greener cross bolt. And the engraving does not look like Reilly. I tried to capture a SN on the tang...There doesn't look to be a one or it just won't show up. And, there is no way a real EM Reilly in that condition would sell for £ 200.

I have to wonder if this might a Reilly marketed gun (although he said it was a "London gun"). There is something odd. I've written to Holts and to Simon Reinhold .. No response. A pity. I'm not trying to "make wrong." I just want the SN and address for the records.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 03/24/22 03:09 AM.

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===== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees TEXT ====

*45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees:

Without company records available it is difficult to determine who worked for Reilly during the 90 years of the company’s existance. This difficulty is not confined to Reilly but rather is one found across the board in London gunmaking except perhaps for some elite gunmaker such as Purdey (three of their engravers are known) and those whose records still are intect. The UK census for 1831-41-51 asked only the interviewees occupation. 1861-71-81 the census also asked employers the number of workers employeed.

The only way to catch a glimpse of who was working at Reilly during this time is if the employees surfaced in some news report or if they self identified later. There are four so identified shop managers and one store manager in France:

. . . . .John Baker – 185?-1861:*45a Not much is known about Baker. He was born in 1822 and was married. He appeared in a court case on behalf of Reilly in April 1861, when Reilly was seeking payment for a volunteer militia gun from a deadbeat. In June 1861 he registered the patent for Reilly for the shotgun shell crimper and per a newspaper article in October 1861 he accidentally poisoned himself. Since the patent was registered for 315 Oxford Street, he must have been managing that shop. He lived in Westminister Parish, probably within a mile of the Oxford Street manufactory. There seems to be no record of him in the 1861 London census.

. . . . .W. Jennings – 1869:*45b. Jennings was identfied as Reilly’s Shop Foreman in a 01 May 1869 series of articles about a fellow who committed suicide after buying a revolver from Reilly (specific store not identified).

. . . . .Francis Davis –1870:*45c He testified for Reilly at the 1870 hearings for violating UK neutrality in the Franco-Prussian war by trying to ship 2,000 shells to his shop in Paris in unmarked packages. No further information on Davis.

. . . . .Ruben Hambling - 1884-85:*45d He may have started out with Reilly in the late 1850's - ran his own gun shop in the midlands then back to Reilly:

. . . . . . . . . .“On the matter of Reuben Hambling, he was a gunmaker. Born in 1833 in Blackawton, Devon, he apprenticed under his father, William Bartlett Hambling. He married in London in 1858, had a daughter there in 1861, and was listed in the 1861 census. He was most likely working as a journeyman for a London gunmaker, name unknown. He was in Manchester from 1865-1869, with his own shop at 27 New Bailey Street, Salford. He may have occupied another address for a time, on Bexley Street. He then moved to High Wycombe northwest of London around 1872 and lived for a time in Brighton (1874-1875), possibly working with his brother William, another gunmaker. From at least 1884-1885 he lived in Paddington, London, on Ashmore Rd. This may have been the time when he was employed by Reilly. After this, he moved to Ashford in Kent, with a business at 41 New Street. He lived at number 39. According to the 1891 census his son, Roger, was apprenticed to him. Reuben Hambling died on 12 December 1891. His son continued the business until 1894.": (Courtesy of Steve Nash)

. . . . . . . . . .Per the Internet Gun Club: "As there is both a New Bailey Street and a New Bexley Street, there is no way of knowing if the paper made an error, or if Reuben Hambling moved from one location to another. He didn't stay long in Manchester and later worked for E. M. Reilly & Co. in London, and finally in Ashford, in Kent. Reuben Hambling died in 1891."

. . . . .James Curtis – 1895:*45de/color] He testified in a trial re the purchase of a Reilly revolver by an Irish terrorist (and on the day of the trial conveniently couldn't identify the purchaser).

. . . . .M. Poirat- 1868-84? Paris:[color:#FF0000]*45f
Manager of Reilly store at 2 rue Scribe, Paris, who tried to convince the new 3rd Republic to buy 6,000 Chessapot rifles stored in Birmingham from Reilly in fall 1870 - Paris still under siege, Reilly's rifles in his 2 rue Scribe shop confiscated by the revolution. (This would have been totally a violation of UK “neutrality”...far worse that 2,000 shells but he might have gotten away with it. The size of the crime would have been justified by the profits). Poirat was obviously a salesman, not a technician).

There are two young workers identified by last name only, who were highly complimented in the press leading to the conclusion that Reilly carefully screened his young employees and meticulously trained them:

. . . . .Mr. Bennett - 1858:*45g He carefully loaded rounds for the guns used in "The Field" trials of 1858 and 1859.

. . . . .Mr. McNamara - 1862:*45h He was responsible for guiding visitors through the Reilly 1862 London World's Fair exhibit.

=== *45 1850’s-1895: Reilly staff; quality young employees END TEXT ====

Last edited by Argo44; 06/05/22 09:11 AM.

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