October
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
5 members (J.B.Patton, Jim H., Jeff L., 2 invisible), 123 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,232
Posts509,153
Members14,090
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#437715 03/03/16 08:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
I always enjoy the long bird contests at the larger sporting clays shoots. May be partly because of the gambler in me, but knowing that half the cash taken in will be given to the winner makes it interesting. I have had some success at it, too, winning a few of them. I just love shooting at really long clay presentations.

There is one being held here tomorrow as a fund raiser for a local 4-H shooting team. I picked up a couple boxes of WW AA 1 1/8 oz. 7 1/2s yesterday to use. I shoot the 1 oz. RIO lower cost shells at sporting most of the time but for this I want heavier premium loads with hard shot. Got me to thinking ...................... at what distance would the energy of the 7 1/2s not be sufficient to get reliable breaks on the clays (standard target, not battues)? Digweed used #4s to set the world's long distance record on clay birds several years ago. Where would you need to go to 6s, to have the energy needed?

And, yes ............... tight chokes are a necessity at this game. You're usually shooting a presentations that are a minimum of 70-80 yards, sometimes considerably longer.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879
My 13 yr old grandson won a long bird shoot using a Modified choke and 7 1/2's, because that's what he had in his hand at the moment.

He won in a shootoff against two adults shooting full race trap guns. He won about $100. (They had agreed to split the $300 pot regardless) Being 13 means no nerves.

Last edited by tudurgs; 03/03/16 09:22 AM.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,980
Likes: 9
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,980
Likes: 9
Stan, can you shoot anything larger than 7 1/2's? At some clubs, that's the largest size allowed.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
That is usually the case, Larry. But, at a fundraiser like this, I don't know. I don't really think they will have anything set at such extreme distance that 7 1/2 s won't do, but I was mostly just wondering about the retained energy levels. Such as, how many 7 1/2 s would be required to reliably break a 90 yard standard target, face on? How many 6s?

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
What kind of a layout do you have for a "long bird" shoot? What kind of trap; where do you stand; straight away; crossing; etc. It sounds like to fun to watch.

At my local club there are occasional long shot contests using the regular trap layout and just backing off: Sometimes from the club house porch, and if no winner, all the way out in the parking lot. It's generally a shoot until you miss affair; informal; and among good friends.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,942
Likes: 6
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,942
Likes: 6
How about live bird loads? Super quality stuff!

bill

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 581
This reminds me of George! Worth dusting down I feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k

130 yards!

Tim

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,436
Likes: 22
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,436
Likes: 22
Stan, I would prefer my GH Parker, 36" eight gauge with about 2 3/4 ounces of buffered #6. For normal long bird shoots where they actually look at your gun, regular pigeon loads, 1 1/4 ounces of hard 7 1/2 at 1225 fps. I have a lifetime supply that I loaded a few years ago when I thought I could afford to shoot flyers. The truth is that I can afford the shells, but can't afford the birds or the options.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
First; if it were known for a certainty how many pellets are required to break a target, Larry Brown and Andrew Jones would have nothing to argue about.

For regular clay target shooting, nothing can have more retained energy than a #7.5 launched at 1330 fps. At 60 yds that equates to about 0.9 ft-lbs per pellet. I've seen enough targets smashed at 60 yards to know that such a shell is adequate. OTOH, I can say that, while loading teal machines on a course, I've stood under teal targets 60 yds from the shooters and heard pellets tinking off them.

Clearly, a single pellet strike at any distance can be insufficient to score a target dead. So, when using #7.5 @ 1300 fps and I have any doubts, more choke is the answer. One ounce of #7.5 @ 1300 fps and IM or Full accounts for every target I break beyond 50 yds....whether a FITASC target, second shot on a bunker bird, a hard angle 27yd ATA bird or a Bo Whoop Challenge pair.

IME, a load of #7.5 will break anything that's perfectly pointed at 70 yds. I no longer play any games with longer shots. But if I did....I might be tempted to use #6 if they were allowed. Started at the same velocity, a #6 will retain the same energy as #7.5 for an additional 10 yds. In other words, I trust the .74 ft-lbs of a #7.5 at 70 yds and a #6 will still have that at 80 yds. Then there's the diminishing return of pellet count and at some point luck becomes a big factor...the point where a perfectly centered bird is lost to a thin pattern.

All things considered, the best shooter will likely win out to 70 yds or so. Beyond that, luck plays a big enough role that most anybody can win.

At a Canadian FITASC shoot 20 years ago, The World's Greatest Target Setter (his articles say so)set a 90mm Midi target quartering away from a trap set a measured 90yds from the peg. One C class shooter broke it with a light mod choke. The Target Setter rode him around in his cart all day to validate the fairness of the target.


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,457
Likes: 116
I'm thinking that 6s are needed at anything past about 80 yards. You may get some breaks at 85-90 with 7 1/2s, but not reliably..

I disagree with your statement, Mike, about luck playing such a big part past 70 yards that anybody can win. I've shot a good many of these deals, and I've never seen a novice win yet. Most of the time, if they get up enough nerve to even try it, they never hit a bird out of 10 tries. Usually you get 10 shots for the money, sometimes 5 pairs. The young guys with tens of thousands of registered targets each year usually win. Us old guys get it right every now and then and beat them. A blind man might get lucky and hit one, but what wins is the most breaks out of 10. Nobody is that lucky. I love to see the kids shoot well ...... Congratulations to your grandson, tudurgs. Mine oldest is 13, too, and is a good shot as well.

As to the question about presentations, usually there will be a high chondelle, or a high arcing target thrown flat. Occasionally there will be a true pair and you will shoot five pairs. Once at a State Shoot there was a pair of trap targets going up and away. The traps were set at about 45-50 yards from the box, with a lot of spring. You had to try the first bird under power (climbing hard) and then the other would be about to top out and begin dropping at about 80-90. You had to shoot way under it to intercept it as it fell. I got dialed in on them and won that one.

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.061s Queries: 35 (0.027s) Memory: 0.8513 MB (Peak: 1.8991 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-10-25 13:11:16 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS