doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Edwinson C Green 10 ga Pics added

Doing a bit of research for a friend. It is a neat old gun with Birmingham BP proofs, markings from the damascus maker on barrels I can't ID. It was imported by GA Hayden in Jacksonville Ill.30 inch barrels, Prince of Wales grip. Extractors, dolls head extension. Widows peak horn butt plate, horn insert on what I believe is an Anson push button ( also has neat spring loaded device under forearm).
It looks to be of high quality with nice bird, dog,scroll and rose engraving. It has a neat looking receiver that looks like a box lock but is also has true sidelocks behind with gold cocking indicators.Serial # 3977.Now the bad news: significant bore pitting, and whole gun was reblued. I can't find any pics of one of his guns that look like it.
Can anyone provide more info, and or opinions as to rarity and value?
Thanks
Rick
Ps. I will follow up with pics as soon as I get on my computer;can't seem to manage it with my phone
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any pics of this one?

a box lock with "true" sidelocks???

if the lock work is in the box- what is on the sideplates

or are they decorative

Looks like a boxlock frame but has true sidekicks behind..some sort of transition gun maybe?

Not a common feature but some boxlocks have a semi circular plate to the rear of the action for added engraving; a sort of sunken metal panel. Edwinson Green was a good maker but it sounds as if the gun you describe may not be in the best condition with the pitting and over restoration. Lagopus.....

Sorry if my descriptions and pics aren't great but the pictures tell the story better.
Rick

Really sad the way it's been buffed, blued, and abused. Just an old clunker now.
JR

interesting- pins enough to say there is some function to the sideplates

and they are over the triggers - so sears must be located there

long way to the hinge

Bears a fleeting resemblance to a Murcott Mousetrap except that one was a bar action, I believe

IGC has this on the well respected Edwinson Green:

Name Edwin (Edwinson) C Green
Other Names Edwinson Green & Son; Edwinson Green & Sons
Address1 282 Great Lister Street
Address2 16 1/2 St Mary's Row
Address3 12 Weaman Street
Address4 87 High Street, Cheltenham
Address5 The Strand, Cheltenham
Address6 99 High Street, Cheltenham
Address7 77 High Street, Cheltenham
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmaker
Other Address 55 High Street, Cheltenham.
Gloucester Addresses: 4 Northgate Street; 16 Northgate Street; The Cross; 4 Northgate Street; 6 Northgate Street.
Dates 1863-1980

Notes

Edwinson (in his early years known as Edwin) Charles Green was born in 1839 in Oldbury, Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire. He was the son of John Green, a cooper, and Charlotte Green. He had two brothers, George (b.1831) and William (b.1837), and one sister, Elizabeth (b.1835). It would seem that Charlotte died or left with the two girls, because by 1851 John Green and the two sons were living as lodgers with Mary Morris, a shopkeeper (almost certainly a hat maker), in High Street, Oldbury. Like his father, William Green became a cooper. At the age of 11 Edwin had left school, and worked for Mary Morris as a pin (hatpin?) straightener (the entry in the 1851 census record is difficult to read). Possibly on the advice of William V Green (his uncle?) who later traded as a gun maker in Gloucester, Edwin moved to Birmingham. He seems to have been apprenticed there, but to whom is unknown. In the 1861 census he was recorded as Edwin Green, a gun finisher lodging with William Cork, a blacksmith. In 1865 he established his own business trading as a gun and rifle maker at 282 Great Lister Street, Birmingham. In 1866 he entered guns in the Field Gun Trials and took the two first prizes (he later took first, second and third prizes in the New York Gun Trials, and won the President's Diamond Badge in Chicago). In 1867 he married Elizabeth (b.1838 in Liverpool) and moved to Cheltenham where he opened a shop at 87 High Street. The business in Birmingham continued. Edwin and Elizabeth had a daughter, Charlotte Elizabeth in 1868 and a son, Charles Frederick Green in 1870. They had three other children, Amy C (b.1873), Frederick H (b.1874) and Alfred E (b.1876).

In about 1874, Edwinson took over his uncle's firm in Gloucester and moved it to 4 Northgate Street. On 8 April 1871 he took out his first patent, it was No. 929 for a drop-down barrel action incorporating transverse bolts locking the lumps. On 23 September 1871 he also patented an alternative triple bolting mechanism (No. 2522). Between 1875 and 1879 the Birmingham workshop moved to 16 1/2 St Mary's Row, and between 1879 and 1886 it moved to 12 Weaman Street. On 28 November 1885 Edwinson patented a drop-down barrel action with transversely dovetailed barrel lumps, locking bolts and trigger plate lock and a safety catch (No. 14626). On 18 December 1889 Edwinson patented a stirrup type revolver with a lightweight barrel, gas ports and dust covers (No. 20321). He had always sold revolvers many of them made by Thomas Thacker of Birmingham.

It appears that the workshop in Birmingham was not recorded after 1890, but it is apparent that the firm, were still involved in making guns and there is a report that it moved to 16 Vesey Street. The same report states that in the Cheltenham shop alone (which had a short testing range) between 32 and 36 men were employed. In the 1891 census Charlotte and Amy C both worked as a shop assistants (but not necessarily for Edwinson). Charles Frederick (aged 21) was employed by his father as a gun maker, and Frederick H (aged 17) was employed as an assistant in the shop. Alfred E (aged 15) was employed as an ironmonger's assistant. In 1894, the firm was re-named Edwinson Charles Green & Son, and the shop in Gloucester was moved to 16 Northgate Street. This was the first of a sucession of moves, in about 1905 it was recorded back at 4 Northgate Street, in about 1909 it was recorded at The Cross, in 1913 it was recorded back at 4 Northgate Street and from 1922 to about 1928 it was at 6 Northgate Street. The shop appears to closed in about 1928. In 1897 Edwinson Green and Frederick H Green patented an adjustable single trigger mechanism (Patent No. 14877). On 9 July 1902 Edwinson Green patented a single trigger for a three barrel gun (No. 15307) which was made in 16 and 12 bore versions. Westley Richards thought so highly of the design that they obtained permission to make a gun to that design for the Turin Exhibition in 1911 and won a gold medal with it (see also Child, Dickson and Boss). At about this time Green made round action shotguns using John Dickson's patent.

In 1912 the firm was re-named Edwinson Green & Sons. The name change may have been in recognition of the fact that on 4 April 1912 E C and F H Green patented their Over / Under action with a selective ejector (No. 8225). Later that year the patent was improved by patent No. 14951 by E C and F H Green for a locking lug. This was the famous O/U for which Atholl Purdey purchased manufacturing rights in 1922. On 3 November 1913 patent No. 24983 by E C and F H Green was for an electro-magnetic safety operated by a plate in the butt. Edwinson Green died in 1930, and presumably Charles F Green and Frederick H Green took over the business. In 1942 the shop in Cheltenham moved to The Strand (in 1947 gunmaking reportedly ceased), and in 1957 to 99 High Street. In 1961 the shop moved to 77 High Street, and in 1963 it moved to 55 High Street. From the late 1960s the firm increasingly traded in tools and hardware and sales of guns ceased, it closed in about 1980. The records of the firm survived and are held by Lewis Potter of Potter & Walker, 177 Pershore Road, Evesham WR11 2NB (potterwalker@tesco.net) who make a small charge for a record search. Internet Gun Club has some details of serial numbers and dates of manufacture which we have not published. Please send details of your gun and its serial number by email to archives@internetgunclub.com and we will reply with what information we have.

Other Info
The firm sold cartridges under the names "Fur & Feather" (post 1910), "Maxim" (Edwinson Green & Son post 1910) the "Maximum" (Edwinson Green & Sons post 1910, the "Cotswold", the "Velox" (post 1918) and the "Fur & Feather" (post 1910).


Tim

A gun possibly built by Bland or Tolley. Duck billed sidelocks, it's a true sidekick, lower quality.
If it was T. Murcott it would have to have an underlever.