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#457987 10/02/16 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 683
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Saw what I think is a W&S gun today. All the parts are there but the stock is broken. A hammer gun with Damascus barrels. The barrels are marked with "Webley & Scott London."

I think it's worth restoring. Bores look good, need a good cleaning. The action and barrels are heavy and 12 gauge. It's unengraved other than the maker.

The gunsmith who had it plans to restore it, eventually, although I doubt I'll see it as he's busy this time of the year.

I tried to find a reference for W&S guns but was unable to find anything. Anyone know anything about them? I know it's not much to go on.

Genelang #458050 10/02/16 03:19 PM
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I am very surprised you found nothing on Webley & Scott, particularly on this very site. They were one of the largest Birmingham sporting gun makers of the last 150 years.

This will take you a while to read through, but should be helpful:

Name Philip Webley
Other Names James & Philip Webley; P Webley; P Webley & Son; Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co Ltd; Webley & Scott Arms Co Ltd; Webley & Scott Ltd
Address1 84 Weaman Street
Address2 84 Weaman Street (83 Weaman Street) (17 Woodstock Street, London?)
Address3 82-84 & 88-89 Weaman Street and Slaney Street
Address4 82-89 Weaman Street and Slaney Street (60 Queen Victoria Street, London)
Address5 82-89 (86) Weaman Street and Slaney Street (78 Shaftesbury Avenue, London)
Address6 The Premier Gun Works, 81-91 Weaman Street (55 Victoria Street, London)
Address7 Park Lane, Handsworth, Birmingham
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun maker
Other Address 17 Woodstock Street; 10 Great Castle Street, Regent Circus (Oxford Circus), London; The Premier Gun Works, 123 Lancaster Street; 78 Shaftesbury Avenue, London; 55 Victoria Street, London; Premier Works, Tame Road, Witton, Birmingham.
Dates 1834-1991

Notes

Philip Webley, was born in 1813, he was the younger brother of James Webley who was born in 1807. Both were born in Birmingham but only their mother, Hannah Webley b.1776) has been traced.
Towards the end of the 1800s the firm claimed establishment in 1790, this must have been the date James and Philip's father or grandfather originally established a bullet or gun implement making business. It was not, as is often stated, the date William Davis established his business (see below). Philip Webley (b.1813) was apprenticed in 1827 to Benjamin Watson. James Webley (b.1807) also seems to have been apprenticed but to whom is not known. In 1834 James and Philip established their partnership as percussioners, lock filers and gun makers at 7 Weaman Street, which were William Davis' old premises (see William Davis). William Davis, a gun implement maker, mould and tool maker, died in 1831 and his wife Sarah inherited the business at 84 Weaman Street which she ran with her daughter, Caroline. On 5 January 1838 Philip Webley married Caroline. Philip Webley and his family (all born in Birmingham) were recorded in the 1841 census living in Weaman Street (number unknown). Philip, who described himself as a bullet mould maker, was recorded in this census as having been born in 1816 and his wife, Caroline was recorded as having been born in 1821, both dates are obviously incorrect. They were living with their children, Thomas William (b.1838), Emma (b.1839) and Philip Jnr (b.1841), and James' and Philip's mother, Hannah (b.1776 in Birmingham). Sarah Davis (b.1825) was also living with them, she was probably William and Sarah Davis' daughter and was probably employed as a servant/nurse). James was recorded in the 1841 census in St Mary's Row (no number stated) but strangely, the record states born in 1811 rather than 1807 and it states that he was not born in Birmingham, Warwickshire whereas in later censuses he states he was born in Birmingham, as was Philip. Harriet and Mary Ann, his sisters were also recorded as born in 1811, which is obviously incorrect, and not in Warwickshire. A child, Emma (b.1839) was recorded but to whom she belonged is not known. In this census James somewhat surprisingly described himself as a clerk.

Philip was recorded at 84 Weaman Street from 1838 as a gun percussioner, lock filer and gun maker and this is when the partnership was last recorded, but the brothers apparently continued to co-operate until 1845 when Philip reportedly sold his interest to James and used the money to purchase Sarah Davis' business. Even then, they worked together particularly with regard to the design and manufacture of percussion revolvers. As stated above, the census records James in St Mary's Row (no number stated) in 1841 but other reports only record him from 1845 as a gun and pistol maker at 14 St Mary's Row. Philip was recorded in the 1851 census as a 38 year old gun and pistol implement manufacturer living at 84 Weaman Street with Caroline (b.1818), Thomas William, Emma and Philip Jnr, and two other sons, James (b.1843) and Henry (b.1847), and Philip's cousin, Sarah Haywood (b.1826). James was recorded in the 1851 census as a 43 year old gun maker employing 24 hands, a very substantial business. He was living at 14 St Mary's Row with his wife, Louisa (b.1815 in Birmingham) and sister, Mary Ann. On 4 February 1853 Philip Webley registered patent No. 335 for a hinged revolver, and on 14 September 1853 he registered patent No. 2127 for an improvement. This was the firm's first muzzle-loading percussion cap and ball revolver which became known as the "Longspur". It was well received and faster to load than the Colt but, being hand-made, it was more expensive. Production exceeded that of the Galand & Sommerville 44 calibre revolver (manufactured by Braendlin & Sommerville) but not that of the Adams (Deane, Adams & Deane) or Tranter revolvers.

James Webley died in 1856 and Louisa took over the business continuing at 14 St Mary's Row under the Louisa Webley name. In 1859 Thomas William, aged 21, was made a partner in the firm, which changed its name to P Webley & Son and described itself as "Gun and Pistol Makers and Patent Revolving Pistol Makers", probably exploiting Philip Webley's patent No. 305 of 4 February 1853 for a revolver frame and lock, and its improvement under patent No. 2127 of 14 September 1853. Thomas later managed the shotgun side of the business. Louisa was recorded in the 1861 census living at 14 St Mary's Row with her daughters Louisa (b.1852) and Hannah (b.1856) and her sister Ann (Mary Ann). Louisa described herself as a gun maker employing 9 men and 7 boys. In 1865 Louisa was recorded at 13 St Mary's Row as Mrs James Webley but not after that date. In 1900 P Webley & Son reportedly occupied 13 St Mary's Row, so it seems that Philip Webley bought the business from Louisa Webley and retained the premises. The 1861 census records Philip and Caroline living at 386 Bristol Road with Thomas W, Philip Jnr and James, and another daughter, Caroline (b.1855). Philip's niece, Mary Draper (b.1858) was recorded and the family employed a domestic servant. Philip described himself, Thomas W and Philip Jnr as gun and pistol implement manufacturers. James was described as a merchant's clerk. On 15 August 1861 P and T W Webley registered patent No. 2033 for a pinion adjusted leaf sight.

From about 1863 up to the First World War, the firm made rook rifles for Holland & Holland. From the 1890s they supplied magazine rifles. In 1863 and 1864 the firm's address was given as 83-84 Weaman Street, but from late 1864 to 1875 their address was 84 Weaman Street. On 7 May 1864 a design was registered for a lever rod for extracting cartridge cases from repeating arms (No. 4364). On 4 August 1865 T W Webley was granted a patent for conversions of pin-fire guns and revolvers to centre-fire, and on 17 November 1866 he patented a spring assisted rotary under-lever for a pin-fire gun (No. 3022). In 1867 the firm made a double action .442 revolver which was adopted by the Royal Irish Constabulary and proved very popular (see Further Info below). In 1869 T W Webley became a guardian of the Birmingham Proof House. On 21 May 1870 P and T W Webley patented a laterally sliding barrel action (No. 1474).

The 1871 census records Philip as a 48 year old gun maker again living at 386 Bristol Road but only with Caroline, a cook and a housemaid. Thomas William was recorded living at The Uplands, Northfield, Edgbaston with his wife, Emma (b.1840 in Thrapston, Northamptonshire) and his brother Henry and two servants. Thomas described himself as a 30 year old master gun maker, Henry was described as a 24 year old gun maker's clerk. By 1874 the firm had a showroom in London at an unknown address. In 1875 the firm expanded into 82-84 and 88-89 Weaman Street. In 1877 the firm bought the business of Tipping & Lawden at Constitution Hill, Birmingham. Plain quality guns were sold under the Tipping & Lawden name for several years. The Webley's London showroom was recorded at 17 Woodstock Street, just off New Bond Street and Oxford Street. On 9 January 1879 a patent was registered for a cartridge loading machine (No. 6123).

On 8 May 1880 T W Webley patented intercepting sears for a drop-down barrel trigger plate action (No. 1860). In the 1881 census, Philip Webley (aged 68) was recorded as still living at 386 Bristol Road with Caroline. James, aged 38 and described as a commercial traveller, was living with them. Philip described himself as a gun, rifle and revolver manufacturer employing 150 men and 10 boys. The 1881 census records Henry Webley as a 34 year old widower and firearms manufacturer living on his own apart from two servants at 6 Vicarage Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham. Henry's first wife was Julia Harriss whose brother was J Harriss of Trulock & Harriss of Dublin). At some time he moved to London to take care of the London end of the business leaving Thomas William to manage the factory. The 1881 census records T W Webley as a 43 year old gun and rifle maker living at Selly Park, Northfield, Edgbaston, with his wife Emma (aged 41), a cook, housemaid and under-housemaid. On 24 November 1881 T W and Henry Webley patented a revolver extractor with a spring loaded retractor and an extractor for a drop-down action (No. 5143).

On 29 March 1882 patent No. 1511 by T W Webley covered a barrel bolt for a drop-down barrel action and a tumbler bolt safety, and on 26 June in that year T W Webley and T Brain patented their opening cocking drop-down action with screw grip top fastening (No. 3053). On 1 February 1883 Henry Webley registered patent No 542 for an improvement to W E Gadge's patent No. 3313 of 29 July 1881. On 20 March 1883 T W Webley, G Bouckley and E C Hodges registered patent No. 1463 for cocking and safety mechanisms for drop-down barrel guns. On 31 March 1885 Henry Webley and J Carter patented a side-lever operated stirrup barrel latch for a revolver (No. 4070). In 1886 the firm opened additional premises in Slaney Street. On 15 February 1888 T W Webley patented an ejector mechanism operated by a cocking lever (No. 2294), and on 3 November he patented muzzle rifling (No. 15894). Also in that year, the London showroom moved 60 Queen Victoria Street, and on 24 March 1888 Philip Webley died. At the time Philip Webley died he was living at 64 Bristol Road. Caroline and Thomas William were his executors, his will was proved at 13,609.7s.10 1/2d.

The new London showroom was managed by W J Jeffery. It seems he may have taken advantage of Philip Webley's poor health and leased the property in his own name. Whatever the terms of the employment agreement between Jeffery and the firm, Thomas and Henry immediately terminated it and left W J Jeffery to occupy the premises. It seems the firm had no London Offices or showroom after 1888 but in 1893 a new showroom was opened at 78 Shaftesbury Avenue and Henry probably moved to London to run it. The shop manager was H J Harriss (Julia Harriss' brother and Henry's brother-in-law?). The 1891 census recorded Caroline Webley aged 73 living on the south coast at a boarding house at 67 Warrior Square. She obviously moved there for the sake of her health, but died in April of that year. Henry does not seem to have been recorded in the census but Thomas William and Emma were recorded again at 2 The Uplands. In 1893 Thomas and Henry Webley bought the business of Joseph Lang & Son. Lang had been buying P Webley & Sons guns for some time but they were broke and unable to pay their debts. On 22 February 1896 Henry Webley, aged 46, married 25 year old Flora Macdonald. At the time he was living at 59 St James' Street. She was born in Cardigan in 1871 and was the daughter of a colonel in the Royal Marines. On 1 March 1897 T W and H Webley patented a falling block action (No. 5388), but the most significant date in 1897 was 21 October when the firm bought W & C Scott & Son. Prior to this take-over, P Webley & Sons had bought the firm of Richard Ellis & Son. The businesses combined under the name on of Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co Ltd. Webley had been Birmingham's largest manufacturers of revolvers for some time and Scott had been the biggest manufacturers of sporting guns. After the take-over, guns were produced under both the Webley and the Scott names. The P Webley & Sons name was used up to 1920 (cheaper guns being sold under the names "Charles Webley" and "Thomas Parker"). One gun (serial No. 68041) has been seen engraved Webley & Scott Arms Co Ltd but this was probably an engraver's mistake as no other record of this firm is known.

T W Webley was appointed managing director of the new company, Lord Ebury was chairman. Henry Webley formally retired at this time due to ill health. Frank T Murray was company secretary. It seems the company expanded to occupy 81-91 Weaman Street, there are conflicting reports about when the Slaney Street premises were given up, in 1897 or 1900, and one report states that up to 1900 the company still occupied 13 St Mary's Row. In 1898 T W Webley put Lang & Hussey Ltd (who had taken over from Joseph Lang & Son Ltd) into liquidation and registered another company with the same name. The shareholders were Henry and T W Webley. In 1899 the former Scott showroom at 10 Great Castle Street, Regent Circus (Oxford Circus) London was closed and Webley's premises at 78 Shaftesbury Avenue were used. On 13 October 1900, Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and W J Whiting registered patent No 18225 for a locking spring modification to the Fosbery automatic revolver.

The 1901 census records Thomas William and Emma on holiday at the Imperial Hotel, Torquay, with a lady's maid. Henry and Flora were recorded living in a flat at 97 Cadogan Gardens, Chelsea with a butler, a lady's maid, a cook and a housemaid. On 15 March 1902 Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and T W Webley registered patent No. 6365 for a falling block rifle mechanism. On 19 September 1902 Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and W J Whiting registered patent No. 20430 for a same position trigger mechanism for single or double action revolvers. On 4 September 1903 Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and W J Whiting registered patent No. 19032 for a semi-automatic pistol with a recoiling barrel and breech block. On 13 February 1904 Thomas William Webley died at The Uplands. He left a personal estate valued at 35,325.4s.1d. Frank T Murray became managing director of the company. On 16 February 1904 Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and W J Whiting registered patent No. 3820 for another semi-automatic pistol with a recoiling barrel and breech block. On 17 August 1904 Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co and W J Whiting registered patent No. 17856 for a lock on the slide of a semi-automatic pistol to hold it open when the magazine was empty. On 17 November 1904 W J Whiting registered patent No. 25028 for improvements to patent No. 3820 of 1904. On 13 May 1905 W J Whiting registered patent No. 10072 for a combination coil spring for a revolver. On 4 August 1905 W J Whiting registered patent No. 15982 for an improved semi-automatic pistol mechanism and safety which locked the hammer at half cock.

In 1906 the company was renamed Webley & Scott Ltd. On 11 June 1906 W J Whiting registered patent No. 13570 for an automatic pistol mechanism. On 4 May 1907 W J Whiting registered patent No. 10377 for coil spring cocking of hammers. On or about 4 November 1908 Webley & Scott and W J Whiting registered patent No. 23200 for a safety block for a semi-automatic pistol. On 4 September 1908 Webley & Scott Ltd and W J Whiting registered patent No. 18567 for a semi-automatic pistol with a fixed barrel which referred to patent No. 23200/1908. On 12 September 1908 W J Whiting reportedly registered patent No. 19177 for a semi-automatic pistol action which locked the slide when the magazine was empty. This patent number has not been confirmed and a patent No. 2570 reportedly 12 September 1908 which referred to a modification of patent No. 15982 (not found) of 1905 has not been confirmed. In 1909 Webley revolvers and automatic pistols became standard issue for the armed forces and the manufacture of all shotguns and rifles was moved to the former Scott factory at The Premier Gun Works, 123 Lancaster Street; the enlarged former Webley factory only produced pistols and revolvers and other small items. Production of sporting guns at the Premier Works amounted to about 2,500 per annum in the period 1897-1909, and 2,000 in the period 1910-1913. Prior to the merger with W & C Scott & Son, P Webley & Son had produced rifles using Martini, Mauser, Mannlicher and Springfield actions, they also produced a "W & RC" rifle in various calibres. They produced sidelock shotguns in 5 grades that they called the "W & R" models. These used the Webley & Brain patent and the Rogers patent. John Thomas Rogers and John Rogers were action filers at 78 Lower Tower Street, they registered patent No. 397 covering a cocking mechanism widely used by Webley. They also produced "Rogers" and "London Pattern" models, and boxlocks that they called the "A & W" (51, 52, 54, 2nd Special and 1st Special grades), these used the Anson & Deeley action and Webley & Brain top fastener; these were produced up to 1940. They also produced a "K" model boxlock shotgun in three grades up to 1921.

In 1904 a Webley employee, J Carter had registered a patent for a single trigger. This became known as the Webley Duplex Single Trigger as one could use the front trigger to fire the right and then the left barrel, or the rear trigger to fire the left and then the right barrel. The complication was that a slide had to be operated to switch the trigger from either "Ordinary" double trigger operation to "Combination". On 23 January 1909 W J Whiting registered patent No. 1664 for a magazine catch for semi-automatic pistols. On 15 October 1909 W J Whiting registered patent No. 23564 for a semi-automatic grip safety which referred to 1664/1909. On 21 February 1910 W J Whiting registered patent No. 4213 for a combined cocking lever and compression chamber for an air weapon. In 1910 the firm made it's "Proprietary Hammerless Boxlock", this used the Webley top extension Screw Grip patented in 1882. It was later named the Model 400 and became available for a time in three grades, production continued until 1946. This model with its top extension was the first to take advantage of improvements in accurate machining of metal parts so that guns could be made on what was called the "interchangeable principle". On 1 September 1910 W J Whiting registered patent No. 20367 for ejectors which used twin spring guide rods in automatic guns. At the same time he registered patent No. 15783 for a side lever on a semi-automatic pistol to release the magazine hold-back.

On 1 January 1912 W J Whiting registered patent No. 201 for a rear sight for use on a long range automatic pistol. On 14 May 1912 W J Whiting registered patent No. 11418 for a hammer block for a semi-automatic pistol to prevent damage when dry-firing. In about 1912/1914 the company made a trap-shooting shotgun with a raised ventilated rib, a mid-sight, Monte Carlo stock with pistol grip, and a beavertail fore-end. On 30 January 1913 W J Whiting registered patent No. 2468 for a safety mechanism for semi-automatic pistols to prevent discharge if no magazine was inserted. On 19 March 1914 W J Whiting registered three patents, No. 6491 for a trigger guard lock for a semi-automatic pistol which referred to his patent No. 15982/1905, No. 6955 for a firing pin and spring modification to his patent No 6956/1914, and No. 6956 for a safety grip and safety to prevent firing of a semi-automatic pistol if no magazine was inserted. On 30 June 1914 W J Whiting registered patent No. 15636 for a magazine removed safety for a semi-automatic pistol. In 1914 the company introduced their Model 100 single barrel semi-hammerless shotgun production of which continued until about 1975. This was based on William Baker's patent No. 6223 of 1910 but in 1922 and 1924 improvements were patented by D V Johnstone and John William Fearn. On 24 October 1914 the company registered patent No. 21473 for a safety which locked the trigger on removal of the magazine of a semi-automatic pistol.

From 1914 to 1929 the company made a single-barrel trap gun. The start of the First World War in 1914 heralded big changes for the company which was heavily involved in the war effort in particular, in making the Mark IV .455 calibre revolvers and Verey Pistols. Henry Webley rejoined the board in 1915 for the duration of the war; at this time he was also Chairman of Joseph Lang & Sons. William J Whiting was appointed joint managing director in 1915, he resigned in 1920 (his son worked for Webley & Scott Ltd and at some time was also appointed works manager). W J Whiting's last patent was No. 151196 of 21 January 1920 which was for another magazine removed safety. Production of sporting guns fell dramatically in the early years of the war and ceased from August 1917 to March 1919. On 30 October 1920 Henry Webley died. At the time he was living at 31 Albert Hall Mansions, Kensington. Probate was granted to Charles Wyld, managing director of Fortnum & Mason, and Percy Gerald Dudley Bell, Chartered accountant. Henry left a personal estate valued at 30,269.19s.2d. In 1920 the making of guns under the name of P Webley & Sons ceased, and the Premier Gun Works at 123 Lancaster Street closed (the Weaman Street premises acquiring the name Premier Gun Works). The lack of demand in the gun trade meant that the company sought other engineering work, in particular from the fast developing automotive industry.

In 1921 the London showroom was moved from Shaftesbury Avenue to smaller premises at 55 Victoria Street. On 3 February 1922 Webley & Scott Ltd and J W Fearn registered patents No. 192914 for a spiral spring top lever. In 1922 Douglas Vaughan Johnstone became managing director. On 12 September 1922 D V Johnstone and J W Fearn registered patent No. 199992 for a coil mainspring and cocking lever on a top lever operated single barrel gun. On the same day they registered patent No. 200429 for an ejector. It was in 1922 that the Model 300 was introduced. It was discontinued in 1939 when the model 300A commenced its 7 year life. This, like the model 400 had a top extension but it used a Greener type cross-bolt. At this time the production of guns was running at about 1,000 per annum (2,000 in 1920 and 1924). Production of Scott's designs dropped substantially and over the next 5 years only about 150 were made. In the following 10 years only about 50 Scott guns were produced and manufacture of them stopped in 1935. On 6 July 1923 D V Johnstone and J W Fearn registered patent No. 217441 for a V spring operated version of their single barrel gun covered by patent No. 199992 of 1922. On 1 December 1923 F Clarke, D V Johnstone and J W Fearn registered patent No. 231557 for an air pistol or air cane piston compressed by a screw mechanism. On 21 December 1923 D V Johnstone and J W Fearn registered patent No. 219872 for an air pistol with a forward hinged barrel cocking mechanism.

On 26 January 1924 D V Johnstone and J W Fearn registered patent No. 231270 for a metal and leather barrel seal for an air weapon. On 19 February 1924 they registered patent No. 229851 for a trigger locking safety for an air pistol. On 3 May 1924 they registered patent No. 237657 for an over / under action with side lugs interlocking with recesses in the barrels. On 30 September 1924 they registered patent No. 246540 for an air weapon rear sight with two adjustable plates. On 3 May 1926 they registered patent No. 252651 for an air cylinder sealed by multiple split rings. On 3 May 1929 Webley & Scott Ltd and D V Johnstone registered patent No. 326703 for an air pistol with variable cocking pressure. This was the final step in the creation of the famous Webley air pistol. How many were made in one form or another is not known. Between 1925 and 1946 the lightweight game model 500 (grade 2) shotgun (also called "Proprietary" probably because it had the Webley top extension and Screw Grip fitted to the model 400) was produced. The model 600, a basic non-ejector, was introduced in 1927 and produced until 1946. Various versions, 601 (1937), 602 (1937), 603 (1938) and 604 (1939) were made some of which had top extensions. In 1925 a few experimental over / under shotguns were produced but they never went into full production. The experiment was repeated in 1930 but again, probably due partly to the depression, they never saw the light of day.

In 1928 T W Horton was appointed chairman. In that year the 55 Victoria Street premises were closed and the company operated only from Birmingham. In 1929 production dropped to 400 guns; in 1932 it was 100 guns but then it rose gradually to about 400 guns in 1938. In 1932 A C Griffiths was appointed chairman. In 1934 H W Smallwood was appointed general manager. The production of W & C Scott sporting guns ceased in 1939 (apart from one gun made in 1949 and a consignment of 48 boxlock shotguns made for Abercrombie & Fitch in New York in 1964). The production of Webley & Scott sporting guns continued until June 1940 when the company increased the manufacture of Mark IV .38 calibre revolvers and flare pistols. Precisely what other war work the company engaged in is not known. It seems the company acquired two additional factories during the Second World War but their precise addresses are not known; it is likely that they were not in Birmingham as the company was classified as a strategic industry and the danger from bombing was too great.

In December 1945 the production of boxlock shotguns started again, but rifles were no longer made by the company and sidelock shotgun production temporarily ceased. "Standard" and "Special" models of shotgun were made, but these were replaced in 1947 by the model 700 in 12 and 16 bore. By 1949 production had reached 1,000 guns per annum. During the 1950s and 1960s the company made their bolt action shotgun in .410, .22 and .360 (9mm) calibres. In the 1950s they also made boxlock and falling-block guns for Holland & Holland. W C Scott & Son had been a major supplier of guns to Holland & Holland from the mid-1800s; from about 1919 these boxlocks were usually sold with "Shot and Regulated by Holland & Holland" engraved on the barrel or rib. In 1952 Eric G Bewley became general manager, he had been company secretary since 1930 and was appointed a director of the firm in 1957. He was a guardian of the Birmingham Proof House from about 1930 until about 1967, and chairman from 1949 to 1957. He was chairman of the Gunmakers Association in 1950 and Chairman of the Long Sufferers Association in 1965. In 1957 two extra models were introduced, these were the 701 and 702 which had more engraving and better wood. The 702 was the top of the range, not the 701 as some reports state; this oft-repeated mistake arose due to a researcher obtaining prices for the 701 and 702 at different times and between the frequent rises in prices. Variations including 20 bore and 28 bore models, were made for export to the USA. The number of guns produced by the firm at this time and during the 1960's and early 1970's was about 1000 per annum of which more than half were exported to the USA.

In 1958 Webley & Scott Ltd were taken over by R H Windsor Ltd and, when the Weaman Street factory was demolished to make way for the Birmingham Inner City Ring Road, they moved to Park Lane, Handsworth, Birmingham. In 1960 Arusha Industries Ltd took over R H Windsor Ltd and the enlarged company was named General & Engineering Industries Ltd. In 1965 Webley & Scott Ltd bought W W Greener Ltd. From 1965 to 1967 the company made 275 guns under the Greener name, mostly "Empire de Luxe" and "Empire" models with aluminium alloy actions. Most of the remainder were "DH40" and "Blue Rock" boxlocks. The Greener GP single barrel shotgun was produced from 1965 to 1979. In 1966 a small number (27) of "Conquest" or "Model 1100" guns were made, these were based on the Rogers bar-action sidelock. From 1970 to 1978 the company imported Over/Under shotguns from Beretta in Italy. These guns were finished by Webley & Scott and named either "Model 900" (1346 in number)or "Model 901" (11 in number), the latter having better wood and engraving.

In 1973 the Harris & Sheldon Group bought Webley & Scott Ltd but within a short time sales and production started to fall, declining to about 350 guns per annum by 1979. In 1978 and 1979 the company imported a few Kromson and Arkrom Over/Under shotguns. In 1979 Webley & Scott ceased shotgun production but continued to make air rifles and air pistols at Park Lane. Harris & Sheldon invested 250,000 in a new company, W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd which was established at the Premier Works, Tame Road, Witton, Birmingham. The cessation of shotgun production was mainly due to the high costs of gunmaking in the UK compared with Spain, Italy and Japan; the intention of the new company was to produce medium and top quality double barrelled shotguns, supply the trade with barrels and actions, and repair all makes of shotgun. Patrick G Whatley was the managing director of the new company, his staff numbered 32 people a majority of whom were former Webley & Scott employees. Out of about 500 shotguns per annum produced by all UK makers in the following 12 months, about 100 guns were produced by the new company. The basic models were the "Bowood", the "Chatsworth" (sideplates) and the "Kinmount". Derivations of these were made for the US market these being the "Texan" (Bowood) and the "Crown" (Kinmount). In 1983 a sidelock was produced in standard (discontinued in 1984) and de luxe qualities, this was named the "Blenheim". The company also produced guns for the Orvis company (the Orvis KHP).

The main problem experienced by W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd during the ensuing years was the relatively high price of their products compared with imported guns, and lack of a significant export market. In 1985 W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd and Webley & Scott Ltd were sold to Holland & Holland who had a long held reputation for very high quality guns, an established export market, and a desire to manufacture boxlock guns for which they required additional manufacturing capacity. Webley & Scott appears to have ceased operations but W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd appears to have continued operating under that name making the "Cavalier" model shotgun. In 1991 Holland & Holland decided to centralise all their manufacturing at their Harrow Road factory in London and the Birmingham factory was closed. In 1993 the company was bought by Scalemead Arms, a distribution company owned by David Pickering. Airgun manufacture was resumed and the company moved to Frankley Industrial Park, Tay Road, Rednal, Birmingham, West Midlands B45 0PA. In November 2005 Webley & Scott Ltd appointed administrators to manage the company and find a buyer for the business. A company named Webley International Ltd continues to operate as a supplier of airgun accessories, imported airguns, blank firing guns and other gun accessories, see Webley International Ltd under "Gun Suppliers". Whether or not this is still operating is not known, in 2006 a buyer was found, Airgunsport Ltd bought the business but details are not known.

The shotgun archives of Webley and Scott were sold to Gallyon & Sons at auction in London on 5 December 2002. The price paid was 8,000. Internet Gun Club has some details of serial numbers and dates of manufacture which we have not published. Please send details of your gun and its serial number by email to archives@internetgunclub.com and we will reply with what information we have. Further information is available from Gallyon & Sons.

Other Info

After producing the Royal Irish Constabulary revolver in 1867, almost all of Webley's subsequent revolvers were of a top-break design such as the British Bull Dog (1872) which was available in .44 short rimfire, .442 and .450 calibers, and later in .320 and .380. Webley made some of the double action revolvers now called Webley .577 Boxer revolvers. These were made by Webley and others under licence from William Tranter. In the 1880s Webley developed the Mark 1 "WG" Army Model in 455/476 (.476 Enfield). It was manufactured in .450, .455 Webley, and .476 calibre and founded a family of revolvers adopted by the British Army, Royal Navy, and police constabularies from 1887 to 1918. The Mark VI (No. 1 Mark VI after 1927) was the most widely-produced of their revolvers, 300,000 were made during the first World War. In 1898 Lieutenant Colonel George Vincent Fosbery VC (Retd) of Holland & Holland Paradox fame, approached Thomas Webley to develop and build his self-cocking or automatic revolver. Heavy recoil is a problem with pistols, and Fosbery sought to use the recoil to cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder and to reduce recoil in the process. The barrel and cylinder slid backwards on the frame. He had made several prototypes based on the Colt 1873 single action model. William John Whiting was manager of Webley's revolver department (later appointed works manager then joint managing director) and he was given responsibility for putting the Fosbery revolver into production although he was primarily known for his work with automatic pistols which were then becoming popular. The Webley-Fosbery was shown at the July 1900 Bisley Meeting and was highly praised for its lack of recoil and steadiness of aim. Two of the testers had highest possible scores and Petty Officer Larcombe of HMS Wildfire won the self-loader match with a Webley-Fosbery. The pistols were tested by the military in England and the USA but were rejected as the sliding mechanism was deemed too likely to succumb to dust and grit in the field. The revolver was not a commercial success partly because of the new popularity of the "automatic pistol" and the restrictions introduced in the 1903 Pistols Act, but it was popular with target shooters. About 4237 were made, production ceased in 1924. In 1909 the company started to make semi-automatic pistols, their .32 calibre was adopted by London's Metropolitan Police in 1911. A .38 calibre version was used by the Royal Navy during World War II. As P Webley & Son, the firm is known to have sold cartridges for a short period.

Amongst the awards won by the company were:
Medal at the Dublin Exhibition 1872
Medal at the Vienna Exhibition 1873
Medal at the Philadelphia Exhibition 1876
Medal at the Sydney Exhibition 1880
Medal at the Calcutta Exhibition 1883
Medal at the Zurich Exhibition 1892.

Name W & C Scott
Other Names W & C Scott & Son
Address1 11 Lench Street
Address2 33 Lench Street and 21 Loveday Street
Address3 Court, 4 Shadwell Street
Address4 94-95 Bath Street
Address5 94-95 Bath Streett and Bagot Street
Address6 94-97 Bath Street and Bagot Street
Address7 Premier Works, 123 Lancaster Street
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun makers
Other Address 7 Dorset Place, Pall Mall, London; 10 Great Castle Street, Regent Circus; Turin, Italy;
Dates 1834-1897

Notes

William Charles Scott was born in 1806, he was the eldest son of William and Dorothy Martin Scott who farmed at Bradfield Combust near Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk. There were several farmers named Scott in the villages of Bradfield Combust and Bradfield St Clare. Charles Scott, his brother, was born in 1807, and there was another brother named James (b.1811) who also became a gun maker. William Scott reportedly worked on the farm with his parents until he was 21 years old, and then obtained an apprenticeship as a gun finisher in Bury St Edmunds. This report has not been confirmed, but if it is true William's apprenticeship was probably with Benjamin Parker of Bury St Edmunds. Most people at this time started their apprenticeships at 14 so it seems that either his father needed William's help on the farm or that William, and later Charles and James, decided that they did not want to be farmers. Charles may also have been apprenticed to Benjamin Parker. In 1834, when his apprenticeship finished, William married Mary Susan Middleditch (b.1810 in Bury St Edmunds) and reportedly moved to Birmingham where he established himself as an outworker (gun finisher) at 11 Lench Street. If this is true, it would be unusual. It is more likely that both William and Charles, and possibly James, served their apprenticeships with a reputable gun maker in Birmingham. This would have left William, when he finished his apprenticeship, with the reputation and necessary contacts he would have needed to start his own business in Birmingham. Charles joined William in the business and the firm of William & Charles Scott was established as "Gun and Pistol Makers". They were only recorded in the street directories at 11 Lench Street from 1840.

In 1835 William and Mary had a son, William Middleditch Scott. In 1837 they had another son, James Charles Scott. The 1841 census records William and Mary in Lench Street (no number stated) with William Middleditch and James Charles and another two sons, Frederick Martin (b.1839) and Charles (b.1841). In 1842 the firm moved to 33 Lench Street and took additional premises at 21 Loveday Street. In 1849 the firm moved to Court, 4 Shadwell Street. In the 1851 census William Scott and his family were living in Walsall Road, Aston Manor. William Middleditch Scott (aged 15) was working in the firm as a gun finisher, James Charles (aged 14) was employed as a gun engraver. There were two further sons, Frederick Martin Scott (b.1839) and Edward John Scott (b.1849). There was also a daughter, Amelia, who had been born in 1842. At this time William's brother, Charles Scott (aged 43), was living with William and his family, he married Mary Ann (maiden name unknown) in about 1852.

In 1855 the firm moved into larger and more prestigious premises at 94-95 Bath Street. On 10 May 1855 a W Scott together with A Powell registered patent No 1052 for improved rifling machinery, but whether this was William Scott of Bath Street or not is not known. Whilst working as an engraver with the firm, James Charles Scott attended art school (the "The School of Design"?). There have been reports that he had little interest in making guns, but although his speciality was engraving his reported lack of interest in gun making is unlikely, not least because of the high regard in which he and William Middleditch Scott, known as "the brothers in Birmingham", were held later in the century.
In 1858 William Middleditch Scott was made a partner and the firm's name changed to W & C Scott & Son. There are reports that William Middleditch Scott became a partner and that the firm was re-named W & C Scott & Son in 1862. Yet other reports say that William Middleditch Scott only became a partner in 1866 but these are almost certainly incorrect. In the 1861 census, William Scott was recorded employing 18 men and two boys. By this time, Frederick M Scott was employed as a gun engraver and gun stocker. In the same census, William Middleditch Scott was recorded living in Victoria Road, Aston Manor with Caroline A (maiden name unknown but born in 1837 in Edgbaston, Birmingham). They never had any children. The 1861 census records Charles Scott living in Bolton Street with Mary Ann, they had two sons, Martin (b.1853) and John (b.1858).

In 1861 William Scott was appointed a guardian of the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House, a position he held until 1865. In 1864 the firm opened a showroom in London at 7 Dorset Place, Pall Mall, and in about 1864, James Charles Scott married Ellen Margaret (maiden name unknown but born in Chelsea, London in 1837). It seems reasonable to assume that James Charles had been sent to London to help set up the new showroom but had soon returned to Birmingham. In 1865 they had a daughter, Caroline M who was born in Aston Manor). From 1864 to 1895 the firm occupied premises in Bagot Street. The precise address is not known, but it appears the premises included "The Tower" in Bagot Street. The original purpose of the tower is unknown, it may have been a shot tower. When W & C Scott & Son moved out in about 1870 it became the government small arms factory (National Rifle Factory no. 2). In 1914 W W Greener took over the premises for the manufacture of Belgian type Mauser actioned rifles and bayonets. There does not appear to be any record of W & C Scott making military weapons or equipment, but it would have been strange if the company grew as large as it did without any military contracts. At some time the factory at 94-95 Bath Street expanded to include 96 and 97 Bath Street. Supposedly these premises were occupied only until 1863, and the Bagot Street premises only until about 1870, but given increasing gun production these dates are more likely to indicate changes in the principal offices of the firm than changes in factory premises. There are reports that the firm built and moved to the Premier Works at 123 Lancaster Street in 1865 but the Premier Works were probably only built in 1870-1874 and occupied in 1874-1875.

The 1860s were very prosperous times for the Birmingham gun trade, due mainly to the American Civil War, but W & C Scott & Son had considerable success in selling their sporting guns, particularly pigeon guns and other high quality guns in London and elsewhere in the United Kingdom, also in the USA, Europe and elsewhere. At this time the firm was producing about 2,000 guns per annum. The London makers who bought Scott guns included James Purdey and Holland & Holland. Between about 1878 and 1914 James Purdey sold shotguns and rifles in B, C, D, and E qualities. C and D qualities were boxlocks, most E quality guns were backlocks. Holland & Holland's medium priced guns were mostly made by W & C Scott & Son and by Martin Scott between 1897 and about 1904, and Frederick (Frank) Scott up to about 1914. W & C Scott & Son supplied more guns to Holland & Holland than any other trade manufacturer. In 1864 and 1865 Westley Richards joined Moore & Harris in a partnership established to save the manufacturing business of Moore & Harris from closure. The venture was not a success, possibly because of falling orders from the USA. Moore & Harris had a fairly substantial business exporting to the USA and this attracted the interest of W & C Scott & Son who bought the business at auction. On 25 October 1865, William Middleditch Scott filed his first patent (No.2752). This was for loaded indicators which were spring loaded pins above the strikers that protruded through the top of the action body when the gun was loaded. In a later variation the tops of the strikers themselves protruded through the action.
In 1866 William Middleditch Scott was appointed a guardian of the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House, he retained this position until 1894.

In 1869 William Scott retired and William Middleditch Scott took over the running of the business. Reportedly, from 1870 the firm marked all its guns with the firm's trade mark consisting of a tower with a flag, representing The Tower in Bagot Street. Some guns may have been so marked, but probably not all of them, the use of this trade mark continued until at least 1914. On 16 February 1870 an adjustable sliding front lump was patented by W M Scott under No. 452 (No. 108942 of 1.11.70 in the USA), this was promoted for sale abroad where competent gunsmiths were hard to find as any wear and looseness could be easily corrected simply by tightening the lump with a screwdriver. This lump is most commonly, if not only, seen on hammerguns made prior to 1887. In 1871 W M Scott registered patent No. 1619 for a recoil pad. In 1871 the Dorset Place showroom in Pall Mall, London, moved to 10 Great Castle Street, Regent Circus (now Oxford Circus) where it remained until 1899.

In the 1871 census, William Scott was recorded living at 2 Irving Place (?), Victoria Road, Aston Manor. Edward John Scott had become a jeweller, Frederick M Scott, then aged 32, was a gun finisher still living at home. Charles Scott was living in Vulcan Place, Sycamore Road, Handsworth, with Mary Ann. Martin (aged 18) was described as a gunmaker's assistant, and John (aged 13) was still at school. William Middleditch Scott and Caroline had moved to Sharman's Cross, Solihull. James Charles Scott was recorded as living in Albert Road, Aston Manor with his wife, Ellen Margaret, and their daughter Caroline M. Between 1871 and 1875 both William Scott and Charles Scott retired, William Middleditch Scott took over the running of the business assisted principally by Charles' son, Martin. William's son, Frederick Martin, was still employed in the business as a gun stocker. On 5 January 1872 W M Scott registered patent No. 42 for the famous Scott Spindle. This was used in conjunction with the Purdey double bolt (1104/1863) and the combination soon became the world-wide standard opening mechanism for double barrelled guns. An improvement to the spindle patent was made, but it was not popular. On 13 January 1873 W M Scott and W J Matthews registered patent No. 138 for a sliding breech action.
By 1873, strikers projecting from the breech face had long been a problem because they could detonate cartridges on closing a gun, and could be broken by the extractors on closing and opening. Spring-loaded strikers had been used, but on 5 April 1873 patent No. 1268 by W M Scott covered two mechanisms to move the strikers back into the breech. The first was shaped slots cut into the extractors to push the strikers back and out of the way, and the second was a bar or a cam linked to the top lever to push them back. The patent also covered two fore-end fasteners one of which, a short "bulb" shaped one, was used on the better quality models of gun.

On 19 November 1873 W M Scott and A E Bruno registered patent No. 3079 for a sliding tangent rear rifle sight. Patent No. 3756 by W M Scott on 19 November 1873 was for improvements to 1268/1873 i.e. a rib extension with a spring bolting system and redesigned fore-end fasteners. In 1874 the firm became agents for Smith & Wesson. On 25 February 1874 W M Scott patented a lever or spring fore-end fastener (No. 712). On 12 June 1874 patent No. 2052 was registered by W M Scott to cover a barrel locking mechanism (two spring operated cylindrical bolts on the standing breech which locked into the outsides of the barrels on operating the top lever). This was Scott's "Quadruple Grip", it was used by Holland & Holland amongst others, but the extra grips were eventually found to be unnecessary and the design was not popular. On 7 October 1874 W M Scott registered patent No. 3424 for a hammerless action cocking mechanism similar to the Gibbs & Pitt patent (284/1873?). In this mechanism cocking was achieved by movement of the top lever, variations for different action designs were included. On 18 January 1875 patent No. 186 by W M Scott covered sliding bolts for drop-down barrel actions. On 27 January 1875 John Rigby and W M Scott patented a choke reinforcing device (No. 312).

Patent No. 1902 of 25 May 1875 by W M Scott covered a bolt which was part of the top lever. It engaged with the top rib extension and became famous as the Triplex top lever grip. Minor changes were made to the basic design over the next few years and it was widely used until gradually replaced by the rectangular cross-bolt introduced in 1892, it was discontinued by Webley & Scott in 1914. On 15 September 1875 patent No. 3223 in the UK and No. 215022 of 6 May 1879 in the USA covered the famous Scott crystal cocking indicators (and a fore-end fastener). The cocking indicators were simply small windows let into the lock plates which allowed the user to see whether the tumblers were in the cocked position or not. They were used up to 1892 on virtually all Scott guns, and up to 1900 on about one third of the guns produced. They were discontinued in 1905. In Birmingham at that time there was a partnership named Abingdon Works who made actions, other parts and accessories, and gun-making tools. It was a partnership of several of the largest gunmakers in Birmingham but it appears to have been trading unsuccessfully. A new company, Abingdon Works Co Ltd, was formed in 1875 and William Middleditch Scott bought a majority of the shares. In addition to the partnership's premises in Shadwell Street, the new company took over the former Scott premises at 94-97 Bath Street and, as stated above, W & C Scott & Son moved to the Premier Gun Works at 123 Lancaster Street. Abingdon Works Co Ltd closed in 1889. On 15 February 1876 William Middleditch Scott and Martin Scott (who was appointed Works Manager in 1876) patented a long fore-end catch which was used until 1892 (patent No. 617). Under that patent they included three different barrel bolting mechanisms (lift-up top lever referring to 2752/1865 and 1268/1873) for different actions, but these were never produced in any quantity. On 23 February 1878 W M Scott and Thomas Baker (action maker) patented their famous coil spring hammerless lock (No.761) in which the gun was cocked on opening by means of rods passing diagonally through the action and engaging with projections on the barrel lump (it was patented in the USA under No. 210436 of 3 December 1878). This patent remained in production until 1892 but the design was used by Holland & Holland, Cogswell & Harrison and others, in some cases up to 1916.

In 1879 the firm bought the rights to the Joseph Vernon Needham and George Hinton patent No. 706 (no. 225994 of 1880 in the USA). This covered an intercepting sear or safety block which prevented movement of the tumbler unless the trigger was pulled. On 26 September 1879 patent No.3883 was filed by W M Scott and John Tonks which covered a lever cocking hammerless gun and safety trigger bolting mechanism. In the 1881 census William Scott was recorded as a retired gun maker living at 158 Victoria Road, Aston Manor with Mary Ann. Their son Frederick M Scott was still living at home (aged 42) and was still employed by the firm as a gun maker. William's brother, Charles, was recorded as a retired gun maker living at 16 Booth Street, Handsworth, his son John, had become a coach axle manufacturer. William Middleditch Scott (then aged 45) and Caroline had moved to 14 Greenfield Crescent, Edgbaston. Martin Scott was recorded living at 32 Booth Street with his wife, Selina Annie (b.1851 in West Bromwich). They appear to have married in about 1877 as they had two sons, Charles Martin (b.1878) and Harold (b.1881). James Charles Scott was erroneously recorded as James Edward Scott, he was living in St Bernard's Road, Solihull, with Ellen Margaret, they had had three sons; William James (b.1872) who worked for the firm in the 1890s but emigrated to the USA in 1897/98; Harry E Scott (b.1873) who probably worked for the firm but emigrated to the USA probably in 1897, and Frederick (Frank) Cecil Scott (b.1880) who worked for the firm and then in 1904 established his own business at 80 Bath Street. On 8 February 1882 W M Scott and Thomas Baker patented their famous gas check groove. This was a groove around the striker holes which vented laterally to the outside of the action (No. 617 in the UK, No. 264722 of 19 September 1882 in the USA). In these early days, black powder gases could by-pass the cartridge cap and enter the breech around the striker where they would cause corrosion. The design was used up to 1935 by which time cartridges had long been "gastight". An alternative solution patented in the USA in 1883, was a cartridge which had grooves running from the cap to the rim of the cartridge, these supposedly allowed any gases from the cap to escape but it seems the cartridge was not very efficient or popular. On 13 March 1882 W M Scott patented an opening cocking mechanism (No.1209). On 18 March 1882 patent No. 1320 also by W M Scott was an improvement to their 1878 patent which made their hammerless action a self-opening one through the use of coil springs around the cocking rods. In 1883 William Scott, founder of the business, died. On 9 February 1883, W M Scott took out patent No 727 for an improvement on Thomas Perkes patent (1968/1878) self-opening action which had been assigned to Scotts. It included a method of adjusting for wear in fore-ends. The self-opening action for back-action locks was made between 1882 and 1887, and for bar-action locks between 1887 and 1897. On 8 August 1883 together with Charles Proctor, W M Scott patented a drop-down barrel cocking mechanism for hammerless guns which used cocking rods (No. 3859) and an adjustable fore-end attachment, but few were produced. This patent was registered in the USA on 20 November 1883 under No. 288670.

On 27 March 1884 patent No. 5564 by W M Scott covered another barrel cocking mechanism which cocked one lock as it opened and the other as it closed. It also included two slightly different mechanisms on the same principal and a mechanism to cock both barrels on closing. In 1887 William Middleditch Scott retired (aged 51) and James Charles Scott took over the running of the business. By this time the company employed about 200 men. In about 1890 the firm opened an showroom in Turin, Italy. Reportedly, this showroom was established mainly to capitalise on the live pigeon shooting market, it was run by Frederick Martin Scott. At about this time the firm was appointed gunmaker to the Kings of Spain, Norway and Sweden. In the 1891 census, William Middleditch Scott was recorded living at 2 Augustus Road, Edgbaston. James Charles Scott was recorded at a more precise address than in the 1881 census, Rowanleigh, St Bernard's Road, Solihull. William J, now aged 19 was a gunmaker's apprentice, and Frederick (Frank) C (aged 11) was at school. From 1895 to 1911 J C Scott was a guardian of the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House, he was also chairman of the Proof Committee for a time.

In 1897, probably by prior arrangement with the Webley family, W & C Scott & Son took over the firm of Richard Ellis & Son. Then, on 21 October, W & C Scott & Son amalgamated with P Webley & Sons to form Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co Ltd, a company with 335,000 issued share capital. Although ostensibly an amalgamation, Webley actually took over W & C Scott. Webley needed additional manufacturing capacity especially for revolvers, and James Charles Scott was happy to sell because he wanted to retire and probably thought Martin Scott was not capable of running the firm. The new Webley and Scott company occupied enlarged premises at 81-91 Weaman Street (P Webley & Sons formerly occupied 82-89 Weaman Street). The sale of W & C Scott & Son must have left the employed Scott family members wondering what to do. James Charles Scott retired and William James and Harry E went to the USA. James Charles nephew, Martin Scott, left the firm to open his own business, Martin Scott & Sons Ltd at 13 St Mary's Row. This company was not recorded after 1908 but Martin was recorded in the 1901 census living at 63 Booth Street, Handsworth. He was living there with Selina A, Charles Martin (aged 23 no occupation stated), Harold (aged 20 and described as a gun manufacturer), Bernard (aged 17 no occupation stated), and a previously unrecorded son named Edgar (b.1886 and therefore aged 15 no occupation stated). Another occupant of the house was a visitor, Frederick B Prike (aged 15) who was the son of Frederick William Prike, the owner of R B Rodda & Co of Calcutta. F B Prike was described as a gun manufacturer's apprentice. He was actually apprenticed in his father's factory in Birmingham but at the time of the census was learning about the manufacture of the Scott guns and rifles which his father bought "in-the-white". What happened to Frederick (Frank) Charles Scott (then aged 17) is not entirely clear, he probably left the old firm to finish his apprenticeship with Martin Scott. He was recorded trading as Frederick C Scott at 80 Bath Street in 1904, after Martin retired, and as Frank C Scott at 80-81 Bath Street from 1909 to 1913. On 17 March 1906 W M Scott registered patent No. 6469 for a folding adjustable side-mounted sight for people with an opposite master eye. In the 1911 census Frank Scott was recorded living at Eastleigh, Alderbrook Road, Solihull, with his wife Lizzie (b.1878 in Alcocks Green, Worcestershire) and a daughter, Margaret Elizabeth (b.1810); he described himself as a sporting gun and rifle manufacturer but specialised in pigeon guns. He made guns for Holland & Holland and supplied more No.2 and No. 3 hammerless models than any other maker, and was appointed gunmaker to King Gustav V of Sweden.

.In 1915 he moved to 65-68 Princip Street, his residential address being Bradfield, St Bernards Road, Olton. In 1914 his business address was 67-68 Princip Street, but from 1915 to 1918 it was 65-68 Princip Street. In 1919 he changed to trade as F C Scott Ltd but the company was not recorded after that date. The 1901 census records James Charles Scott as a retired gun maker living with his wife, Mary A, in At Bernards Road, Solihull. In 1916 William Middleditch Scott died, James Charles Scott died in 1917. Apart from guns being marked with the W & C Scott name up to the mid-1930s, the name made a brief re-appearance in about 1926 when Webley & Scott Ltd established W & C Scott Arms Co in New York to handle the importation and distribution of guns in the USA. This firm probably ceased operations in or soon after 1929.

Well, you did ask!

Tim


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