doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1/2oz smokeless .410 recipes?

I have a big pile of new old stock winchester paper .410 hulls.
I'm interested in loading 1/2oz, felt wad, and with a roll crimp.

I'll be cutting them to 2" for use in a sweet little 30" barreled toplever back action hammer gun which is in very good condition, chambered for the 2" .410 -- not the 44XL brass/paper shotshell.


Thanks for the time


--Tinker

Not sure you can get a ½oz load into a 2" case. The original load for a 2" .410 case was I believe about 5/16oz, 3/8 at most. The ½oz load of shot will I believe take at least an inch of the case length & deduct for base wad height, crimp length & wadding, don't think you'll have anywhere left for the powder.

Hey, good point.

So do you know of any 5/16 or 3/8 oz smokeless .410 loads?


--Tinker

As a note, the winchester paper hull trimmed to 2" holds 5/16oz shot with over shot card, 12gr 2400 with over powder card and a felt wad, with a perfect little roll crimp
Just room enough for everything, just had to test-fit that combination...

--Tinker

You can probably get by with just an OP wad, no filler, if that helps. In other words, skip the felt wad. Fillers never did anything for my muzzle loading shotgun shooting.

Thanks Jim-

I'll note that for sure.
Got any ideas on powders and quantities?
2400 has worked well in the past, I just scaled a 14gr (for 1/2oz load) down to 12gr for this test-fit.


--Tinker

Gentlemen,

Not to intrude on this discussion, but I have always held the belief that the modern shot cup and its cushion is in large part a spacer filling the the void left from the black powder era and in most, if not all instances, the cushion could be SAFELY removed from the shot cup if the shell hull was properly shortened? Would this be correct? Using a safe load to begin with of course.

Thank you,

Kurt

Kurt-

Intrude at will!

The little .410 hull, trimmed to two inches total length, juuuust fits the 5/16oz of shot with nitro card, felt wad, and over shot card.
A trimmed shot cup *might* fit in there, but I don't have any to try, and I don't know if there are any that are made to fit the paper case.
I do however have 1/4" felt material, punches, and loads of these pretty little paper hulls, also the 2-1/2", 1/2OZ loaded ammunition I have from the era of the hulls is loaded with a fiber wad and no shot cup.



--Tinker

The only black powder loading for a 2" .410, that I know calls for 3/8 oz of shot with 25 grains of black powder (slightly less than 1 dram).
This would be same loading as the 44XL. Only so much can be crammed into 2" You just might get 7/16 oz into the shell. Depends on your wad.
Shot sizes were 6, 7 1/2 or 8.

Early on, Eley did produce a 7/8" long .410 according to Gabriel. It is surmised that it was used in self defense pocket guns and possibly cane guns.
Eley also produced a 2" .410 pinfire as did a French maker whose name eludes me at the moment. Eley's 2" 410 was called Fourten, their 2 1/2" was Fourlong.

Pete

I would use a .135 card rather than a felt wad. Card wads were used for gas seal, felt wads for filler. I would certainly trust a reduced powder charge from a 1/2 ounce load, whether 2400 or 296. Examining a modern plastic .410 wad will convince you that you don't need a filler. I personally would use a plastic wad with the petals shortened with scissors to reduce the leading that you will get if you use the card wads, especially if your bore is not perfect.