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Enough of you have either PMed me, or emailed me, about this recent listing, (5, at last count) that I'm going to just put this up with a few pointers. It is a gun recently listed at Cabela's and labeled an R14 Darne:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100789544

A few of you figured out it isn't a product of Regis Darne's factory, the finishing and stocking anyway. For the rest, this is actually a Francisque Darne gun, produced in a factory that was initially owned by his eldest son.

Just for reference, this is a photo of an actual R14 slug, produced by Regis Darne's company, and, later, the Bruchets:



While the F. Darne concern lasted in St. Etienne until 1955, it was, sadly, only owned and operated by Francisque for a brief period, roughly 1910 until 1917, the year of his death. After that, there were a series of owners, some, better than others.

I would venture from this late juncture that few of the F. Darne guns that turn up today were actually produced in the factory while it was owned by Francisque Darne.

I've misplaced a couple of my F. Darne catalogs, but, have a photocopy of the 1936 catalog, produced by Jallas and Cie. Abey books has a nice reproduction, and the cover is full-on period artistry, with a delightfully formally clad lass venturing up a hill with her fowling piece, and a male figure trudging up behind, gamebag on shoulder, with lollypop trees in the distance. Wonderful:



Using the catalog, I've narrowed the gun to a "Classique" model, and it appears to be the lowest grade. The translation from the model description is, "Barrels of superior composition steel, simple proof (single proof, in this case) carefully regulated, light engraving, color case hardening, proofed for powder T". It was the lowest grade, of the least expensive models of sliding breech gun produced by F. Darne at that time, and while I haven't seen the flats of the gun for positive ID, I'm positive it is the gun we are dealing with. No quality stamps were applied to this model at the factory:



There exist R14 Darne model guns that are not slug guns. But, there are precious few of them. Our own Larry Brown turned one up. Slug guns were built on the R11 and R14 model designations, and make no mistake, an R14, slug, or, otherwise, is a high grade gun.

The Simichrome job someone took the time to do to the receiver of the Cabela's gun, along with any other refinishing work, is not of the taste that the gun was built with, and, I would suggest it hasn't helped the gun's value what so ever. The bead is suspicious to me, as well.

Dealers, being who they are, never seem to guess the grade LOWER than the gun actually is. It doesn't seem (to me, anyway) that it should be that tough to find out what you are actually selling. My opinion, is this gun is quite similar in grade and workmanship to a Darne Halifax model, and wouldn't sell for anywhere near what an actual R14 Darne would.

Here is another example. This gun is listed as an R11. It most clearly is not a graded R, but, the unengraved, cyanide colored, hunting implement that the world came to know as the R10 after the second world war. He has other guns of this grade correctly listed, but, notice the price on this one. It is breath taking for a short barreled, 20 gauge, R10, IMHO:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100758687

An accident? I wonder.

Be careful out there. I have been the bearer of bad news to people too many times over the years, when they called with their spanky new-to-them V22, which turned out to be a R11 or R12, a nice enough gun, but, certainly not worth what they parted with for it, based on what the dealer told them it was.

Best,
Ted


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Thanks for this, Ted! Certainly hazardous ground for the unwary buyer....

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Great advise.

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Ted;
How many grades were the Halifax guns made in & how do you determine their grade.


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Miller,
I have seen Halifax guns that were simply marked "Halifax" and other guns that were marked 3, 4 or 5. They are always marked with grade on the front the flats.
My 1936 Darne catalog has both 4 and 5 listed, but, no 3. By 1959, the Halifax is no longer listed.
The years with mutiple grade listings of Halifax guns in the catalogs seem to be the lean years of gun production.
There was a 16 gauge grade 5 Halifax listed on gunbroker a while ago, nicely engraved with the detonation cut back, a style I am a sucker for, and a straight grip stock of vanilla plain wood. It needed some minor work, but, I didn't really need it. It might still be there.

Best,
Ted

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Just an FYI. As of last Thursday there were two Darne style gun at Cabela's in Owatonna. This one and another sitting right beside it. Don't know much about these guns but did pick both up. I also did not look them over carefullly but can say the second ones receiver was not polished like this one and was what I would call a French grey color.

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Ted;
My 16ga Halifax is marked No 4.It has 68cm barels , 65mm chambers & weighs 5lbs 14ozs. If of any benefit SN is 49,505. It has Double Proof with PT (Powder T I believe) & has 17.0 mm (.669") bores so very slight overbore from nominal .662" (16.8mm). It fits me well & overall I like this litle 16 very much as long as I have time to remember where the safety is. On a sudden, unexpected shot I will still reach for the "Tang" safety which in my opinion has always been where a safety belongs.
There is some scrollwork on the key, breech bolt, Bed plate (or whatever you call it) trigger guard & tang. Stock is two piece with the dividing piece being very thin, about 3/32" (2.4mm) & with square corners. I have seen many Darnes with a large corner radius where the wood meets the divider.


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Sounds like a very typical Halifax, Miller. Ever measure the chokes? Often, tighter than tight. I always call that part the Watertable, as that is what the guys in France called it. A side benefit is it bugs Dr. Sane when you call it that.
I have a soft spot in my heart for guns that were produced for the working man, here, or anywhere else in the world. I enjoy going afield with them, and using them, perhaps even more so than my higher grade guns.
Use your Halifax in good health, Sir. I know I would, were it mine.

Have a blessed holiday season.

Best,
Ted

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Thank You Ted;
Yes I have measured the chokes, don't recall the exact numbers just now. Left bbl I would call full though don't recall it being abnormally so & right was a bit more open. I really do like everything about it except the safety.
I think you have addressed this before but not sure what the consensus was. Is it considered a safe practise to carry one of these with the safety off but the key up. There is a point after the breech has closed but the key is still up at an angle & the bolting not yet cammed in but the gun will not fire from here. I think I could very easily learn to simply push the key down to lock as I brought the gun up if this is a safe practice.
The chambers had been lengthened with a long cone, but there is still ample wall thickness everywhere. I have shot some pretty stiff loads from it actually with comfort in spite of its light weight.Not a lot of them in rapid succession though.


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Miller,
Well, to begin with, yes, there is a method to carry your Darne with the lever up, using it as a safety. I want to stress it is not idiot proof, but, few things concerning firearms or ammuntion are.
You can leave the lever up to use as a safety on a Darne, but, the lever has to be far enough up that there is a bit of space between the breech block and the end of the barrels. It is possible to get the breech block close enough with the lever up that you can actuate the ejectors on live ammunition, something that was advertised as possible to do in Darne instructions pre WWII-this move gives me the willies, and I avoid it like the plague. I can't understand why anyone would want to actuate the ejectors on live ammunition, but, I don't understand many things I guess. Just a little bit closer to closed, but, still not shut, the gun will fire with the lever open, recoil closing the action against your thumb. Truly frightening, the first time it happens, which, obviously, should be the last time.
You can practice this with your gun, leaving it empty, or, using snap caps to become familiar with it. I have the curse of lefthandedness, so, a Darne safety, either the sliding tab on a V or P model, or the rotating lever of an R, work well for me, but, I still use the lever from time to time, typically when involved with the dog, jumping a ditch, or handing the gun off to someone.
Do spend a bit of time becoming familiar with this operation on your individual gun before putting it into regular use.


Best,
Ted


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