doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vickers and Vickers Armstong Shotgun Survey

I am interested in the production of Vickers and Vickers Armstrong sporting guns made between the wars from 1920 to 1940.

I keep a data base of serial numbers and am keen to expand this. All contributions will be kept anonymous.


I am interested in double barrel guns, sidelock & boxlock, as well as the single barrel Vickers Vanguard.

All I need is a brief description including bore, sidelock or boxlock, ejector or non ejector if known and the serial number.

If you would prefer to contact me by e-mail it is:
alandavid303@optusnet.com.au

Many thanks.
Regards

Alan David
Sydney

A few images here:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post333230

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

A quick up-date on my survey.

Broadly speaking the Vickers and Vickers Armstrong guns fall into three categories.

Sidelocks.
Earliest s/n is 1054 going up to 1576, with the transition from Vickers marked guns to Vickers Armstrong occurring between 1334 and 1452. Bearing in mind Vickers almost certainly started numbering at 1000 or 1001, they were not a huge seller over the18 odd years that they made them.

Boxlock in 12 bore.
Have got three only numbers 90673 to 90817, quite a tight group.

Boxlock 16 and 20 bore.
Again 3 only guns 5030 to 5238. So presumably made by a different maker to the 12 bore boxlocks above?

Vickers Vanguard.
The most numerous with serial numbers going up to the 6000 range and one reported in the 10,000 range but unverified.

This is an on-going survey so any new contributions would really be appreciated.

Regards

Alan David
Sydney

Just a note that this survey is still ongoing. If you have an example to add, I would be pleased to hear from you.

Regards

AlanD

My question is what do you find so fascinating about them? If you could give me a rundown on their good qualities

Not really a fascination but they are of interest. I stated compiling a data base of serial numbers and photos as there is very little published information on these Vickers and from 1928 Vickers Armstrong guns.So I decided to do my own research.

Its a shame but the sales ledgers appear to have been lost long ago, not surprising really. I did get some basic information on sporting gun sales in Pounds from the Vickers Plc archive held at the Cambridge University Library after a couple of days of going through some of the files. All good fun.

Regards

Alan

Hi Alan,have you come across any information on how these guns were retailed ? Did they have a shop/shops or were they sold by others in the trade ? I`ve only seen one in the metal which was a sidelock of fairly plain grade and in poor condition .It was at one time owned by a keeper at Thirkleby Estate and subsequently de activated.

Hi Imperdix

While I have spent a few days in the Cambridge University Library going through the Vickers and Vickers Armstrong Company Archive, i found nothing that even mentioned their distribution set-up. Nor did I find any sales registers or shipping ledgers for sporting guns & rifles. I think they are long gone unfortunately.
In reality it was really the .22 martini target rifles that were the main seller for Vickers from the early 1920's to 1940. They certainly gave BSA and its Martini target rifles some real competition.
Vickers did have a showroom within Vickers House in Broadway in Central London. However this was to showcase all there many different products. I expect they would have had a case or display of their shotguns and rifles but doubt they would have sold to anyone walking in off the street.On my last UK visit I walked the length of Broadway but the building must have been demolished at some time and a newer building erected.

They advertised in magazines like The Field and no-doubt gun shops that wanted to order from them would write for the various catalogues that Vickers produced which had retail pricing only. In view of the vary modest sales of their boxlock and side lock shotguns, I don't think they had a full time rep on the road. The only shotgun they sold in quantity was the Vickers Vanguard single barrel, which competed with the Webley & Scott single barrel gun. Sales of the Vickers Vanguard bearing in mind Vickers seemed to start serialization at 1001, seems to have been about 6,000 guns looking at various gunmaker ledgers over the years where sales are recorded in 1940/41 period for this gun, when production finished. So 6,000 units in around 20 years is OK but we are not exactly setting the world on fire. I would love to see an estimate for the Webley & Scott single barrel from 1920 to 1940.

My next task is to try and find someone who really knows their 20th century British boxlock shotguns like the back of their hand, so I can forward photos and try to work out who in the trade made what for Vickers.
I am pretty sure Baker made the sidelocks with his patent using a coil spring, not sure about the more traditional sidelock they also sold. The boxlocks follow two made serial number ranges but with different patterns of gun within these, very confusing. I am certain Vickers made the single barrel Vanguard as it was designed to be manufactured by machine. Although the checkering was hand done and Vickers even did away with this in latter production, using stamped of pressed-in checkering which looks cheap. I expect they were trying to save a few bob.

Regards
Alan David
Sydney

There`s a pair of Vickers Armstrong Ltd boxlocks in the next sale at Rydale Auctioneers ,photo and description on their website .Hth.

Thanks Imerdix

Thee guns fall into the typical 90XXX serial number range for Boxlock guns made under the Vickers Armstrong name from 1928.

I am still unaware of which of the Birmingham gunmakers made them for Vickers.

Anyone got any ideas.

Lot 450 on page 10 of the catalogue.

https://www.ryedaleauctioneers.com/...4910788336/guns-and-sporting-goods-sale/





Regards

Alan