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I stopped into one of my area gunstores yesterday.It sometimes takes in nice doubles on trade, although the owner often takes them home to add to his personal collection. I wouldn't consider him to be a "Doublegun Guy", such as the members of this board.

He recently traded for a Parker Grade 2 hammergun, with a #1 frame size. Nice gun, he'd initially thought it was a 20ga, it was so light. It's about a 10% gun, with C/coloring only on the underside of the forend iron. Nice candidate for restoration. Wood is sound, action is tight, checkering still distinct, and engraving is in nice shape.

The problem was the barrels, he was convinced they were covered with " Patina" and were in very good shape. I pulled the forend and showed him the visible 3 iron crolle underneath, and attempted to explain to him that the barrels were covered with an even coat of rust, as there would be a brown pattern visible if they were showing patina. When seeing this type of rust on tubes, there is almost always small pits underneath, probably growing deeper every day. A concern, especially on a gun with very light tubes. I'm still not sure if he believed me or not, after all, he does own a Gun Store. People who acquire these guns should at least make an effort to understand how to preserve them.

Regards
Ken

"Patina" - what gun dealers call rust encrustation.

Patina seems to be one of the most abused terms with guns. So many of the used guns I have bought, required some scraping of 'patina'. I have tried to explain that patina does not come off as brown dust when scraped with a brass implement! After decades of wiping and handling, the rust turns brown and smooth, thus, turning into 'patina'!

If it is your gun and selling it, it is patina. If you are buying the gun it is rust! Really, I think true patina is the finish that a very used but not abused gun develops. Bluing worn off and a natural, browning as it were with no pits or active rust. ymmv

Exactly!

True patina, in the case of old guns, is a combination of oil and grime accumulated over years of handling and rubbing and yes, it often includes some oxidization (rust) in the mix, as well as specs of blood and sweat. If it were only rust I would worry about surface pits. Caked or scaled rust is obvious for what it is - a dry and crusty ugly build-up.

Frosted bores belongs in there
bill

If we are buying its rust
When selling patina


John Boyd

This remind me that I was at a gun shore close to me and I asked if the had any graded guns. They said they keep them lock in a glass cabinet because of their value. I looked at the guns and stated to laugh. They had a Parker Bro. VH that was polished to a chrome finish. When the guy asked what was so funny, I told him they had one too many zeros on the gun. The gun was completely messed up badly. They had $10,000 on the tag. Just about every older sxs they had was priced out of this world. When I ask him if he want to buy some of my guns that are much better condition for 1/3 what he was asking for his, he told me he was not interested because they don't sell. NO KIDDING AT THOSE PRICES.

I have a first year model 12 20 gauge that had a bore that could be described as "frosted', no pits, but, certainly, not shiny. The ouside of the gun was rusty, period, your hands would be red after handling it. I had the gun re-blued, and after using it for several seasons and several leagues, the bore is quite nice. This is no collector piece, just a neglected gun that was refinished, fitted with a lefty safety, and put back into service.

I later discovered from a family relative the gun had likely not been fired since the early 1950s. It was an Uncle's barn gun.

Best,
Ted