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Joined: Oct 2003
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Sidelock
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I've just purchased a "pair" of Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1903 rifles in 6.5X54. Both are half-stocks, and are not take-down.

The first rifle appears near-factory, but for a carved foreend. The second rifle has a left-hand cheekpiece, and a shortened LOP but the stock appears otherwise factory. The second also has a period claw-mount Zeiss scope. The two rifles have four digit serial numbers, sequential.

Interestingly the initial badge on the second rifle also displays a Crown appearing to be that of a prince.

Does anybody know how I could find out more about this pair?

Thanks,
GG

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Without a set of good photos including all the markings, hardly. Then I would contact everybody that put these markings on: manufacturer, proof house (or houses), possible retailer. I would also try to find and contact specialists that research nobles; Princes are far less common than say Freiherrs so you have a fair chance there.

With kind regards,
Jani

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Hello Jani:

I appreciate the suggestions and encouragement.

I'll try to pull one or both stocks and get some decent photos of markings.

I'm a little surprised by your suggestion that the rifles may have been proofed in multiple proof houses. Was this customary for the day if guns moving across multiple jurisdictions?

I also will attempt to find someone who researches nobles. Perhaps not a lot of those on this side of the pond!

Regards
GG

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Hello Jani and others:

Here is a link to the photos of one of the M-S markings.

Thanks for any details you can provide to me from them....

Regards,
GG

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0vtcymcwj8p3l2h/AACY16L1dDAV_nnyBo3azg3Ka?dl=0

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Serial number 5633, proofed in 1910, Vienna Proof House.
I hope that the PL under closed crown (Prinz Leopold? - just a wild guess) will be dechiphered by another member who is much more versed in this matters than Yours Truly.

With kind regards,
Jani

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Ger Offline
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C 6.5 = caliber 6,5mm,
21733.10. = Protocol-No. 21733 Vienna proof house from 1910.
5633 = Serial-No.
The crown shows a "Fürstenkrone" (crown of a first), therefore Prinz Leopold isn't possible. My opinion is "Fürst von Lobkowicz" but not certain.
You can ask the proof house Vienna about the history regarding the protocol-no.
mailto:office-wien@beschussamt.gv.at?subject=Beschussamt Wien
https://www.bmwfw.gv.at/TechnikUndVermes...samt%20Wien.pdf

Last edited by Ger; 03/14/17 07:06 AM.
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Here is a possibility

Jaroslav Aloys Franz Kungund Emanuel Maria 11. Fürst von Lobkowitz
Birthdate: March 26, 1877 (76)
Birthplace: Konopischt,,,,,
Death: Died October 24, 1953 in Plzensky Kraj, CZECH REPUBLIC

He is of the correct era, and there are game trophies in the family home attributed to him by his son Johannes Lobkowitz.

Last edited by Grouse Guy; 03/14/17 10:16 AM.
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Ger Offline
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My opinion is that the initial shows FZL, than it's Ferdinand Zdenko Maria Fürst von Lobkowitz, born January 23,1858 in Prague,
married in Vienna, died December 22, 1938

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Where do you see the third letter?

Cheers,
Gunwolf

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In the middle the F , to the left Z, to the right L, but not certain.

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