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Nudge #477865 04/14/17 07:43 PM
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A bit of Lefever marketing hyperbole - AA "Finest A-1 Quality Silver Steel Damascus Highest Proof" courtesy of Richard Brewster. English Best 4 Iron 'Turkish' possibly by Sir Thomas Kilby.


Nudge #477866 04/14/17 07:45 PM
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Señor Claw



"Remington Arms"


Nudge #477868 04/14/17 07:57 PM
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Dr. Drew,

The top set is original contrast "Fine Damascus" (C grade).

The bottom set were carefully re-browned by an old turkey hunter in Missouri. *s*

Thx for the input. No two things seem to stir more variance of opinions on this forum than "what Damascus pattern" and "which engraver."

- Nudge

Nudge #477869 04/14/17 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nudge
No two things seem to stir more variance of opinions on this forum than "what Damascus pattern" and "which engraver."

- Nudge


Except for ...... which choke is best?

SRH


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Nudge #477901 04/15/17 10:40 AM
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Always enjoy the damascus tutorials. I have to wonder how many meaningful "grades" there are when you just factor something like tensile strength. There are so many cosmetic variants that look very different but from a strength perspective probably perform near identically. Very interesting stuff.

Nudge #477905 04/15/17 11:08 AM
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Dan: the yet to be published frown pattern welded tensile testing study showed remarkable consistency between crolle patterns, admittedly a limited sample. The average tensile strength was 54,700 psi.

Sergei Aleksandrovich Buturlin published "The Shotgun and Shooting It" in 1929. Igor Robertovich very kindly translated his 1938 edition for me.
Buturlin cited studies conducted at TOZ (Tula Arms Plant) likely immediately before WWI and listed Damascus tensile strength as 56,900 – 68,250 psi; about 2/3 of period Seimens-Martin and about the same as Decarbonized Steel.

The 1891 Proof House Trial Report is summarized here also
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit

I agree that the "quality" difference is primarily aesthetic. My thoughts
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxP1k3PzmtmrG1HEGxd8X6g0-1GL0KNY8WMIMkdKr0/edit

Nudge #477916 04/15/17 12:42 PM
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While we're on the subject, I would VERY much like to tensile test a segment of Bernard II barrel; would need about 3". Somebody's gotta have a C grade Parker they would like donate to science? wink


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Originally Posted By: El Garro
Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
And BTW we're STILL waiting for one of our British correspondents to find the British Damascus Rosetta Stone wink


Only if you tell us how Pieper managed to get his name in the pattern smile


Very simple, he paid the rolling mill to do it! There is a general myth which goes something to the effect that each barrel maker made the pattern. That is simply not the case. The rolling mill would schedule runs of the patterns it had orders for. The barrel smith would pay the mill for the ribbons they needed. The barrel smith would then forge them into complete barrels

This accounts for the volume of damascus barrels produced by the Belgians. At the Curtius Museum (Musée Curtius) in Liege are 2 films spliced into one that are constantly running showing the complete process from rolling mill to final gun.

As for Pieper, I am confident he never stood at an anvil in his life. cool

Pete

Nudge #477935 04/15/17 07:07 PM
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Now that makes sense. It would certainly reduce the amount of flawed ribbons that might cause the tubes to fail proof. It would also be a huge labor savings as well, as opposed to the individual smiths forging their own ribbons. It also explains the relative consistency found in the patterns. Great post.

It also "begs the question" that the English smiths may have bought ribbons from Belgium.

Regards
Ken

Last edited by Ken61; 04/15/17 07:10 PM.

I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
Nudge #477941 04/15/17 09:02 PM
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I stand amazed at the mechanical and artistic genius that could design a lopin, send the specs to a rolling mill, twist the rods and hammer weld them into a ribband, and then turn the ribband into a masterpiece that looks like this...and that accomplishes its intended purpose!




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