doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com CSMC changing

I have a 20 Ga RBL Launch, PG,SST and it has been flawless. It was a late manufactured one and hopefully the bugs were fixed. I don't shoot it a lot, but usually drag it out and shoot some paper hull #8 shot and get a limit of doves every September.

Wow sorry I am late to this one. Sorry this was typed on my iPad so there are probably a lot of typos
I have more than two cents on this issue
I too have a launch edition rbl. A very early pg single trigger high end Claro gun serial number 1xx. It is a beautiful gun. It has been shot more than a little at clays and hunted. Mine is actually one of the nicest I have seen. My only complaint is Tony's poor communication when the launch edition put him so far behind
I had an ejector break this last year. If you remember they only had a year warranty. There was no question when I sent it back. It was repaired and shipped back quickly and all for free. His service department is great.
I do kick myself for not buying a an A10 with the early, RBL customer discount. But it would have been in a target configuration not as a game gun.
My biggest complaint about Galazan's is probably there high price attitude. I make a good living, can afford many nice things,but feel I am not even in the same Country when I talk with them at Las Vegas or SCI. And maybe the ultra rich is their market, but.....

I do think he desires credit for what he has done. As an engineer I admire his ability to put modern machinery to such a good use. As a businessman I congratulate him for his market savvy and success.

Re double gun market
As a member and once the vp of the CA Side x Side society I can tell you our numbers are shrinking. There are very few new younger members. At 62 I am one of the youngest. Not a good sign
My son and his age group while they are interested in guns, some in clay target shooting, some in handguns, some in black guns, none, I repeat none are interested in sxs.
One of my good shooting buddies is a bigger collector than I am. I am mostly $1000 to $3000 guns, he starts where I leave off. He keeps telling me about all of these great buys he is getting. A lot are from Cabelas. I keep saying if those prices are what he is paying, then that is the value (price). if he thinks he is buying them for 50 to 75 cents on the dollar, then some family or widow is selling them to Cabelas for 25 to 37.5 cents on the dollar. The point is, the sxs market is soft because the collectors are aging and dying off and they collections are getting dumped
Re: Black guns
I have a FFL and state of CA lic, mostly for helping non-profits raffle off guns,. Because of this I am a bit in tune to what is available on the wholesale market. A few years ago black guns and parts where hard to come buy. Now the market is flooded and prices are dropping. The big boys like Ruger, Remington and Now even Savage are getting into the market buy introducing guns or buying companies that are successful in that market. From my observations....
I think this market is thinning out a bit, but will remain steady for a while. Silencers are the latest thing but not new, just to America. I was asked to use a loaner gun for one of the animals on my last African Safari so not to disturb the game one the ranch! And the gun laws in South Africa are much worse than America. I own only one AR just because, it is fun to play with
Re over unders
Really this is the only strong portion of the double gun market. The truth is there are very few shooters who will not improve their scores with one vs a dbl barrel. (I know that is blasphemy!). The same can be said for a good target auto when playing the sporting clay game.
While there will always be a market for the high end o/u go to a big sporting clay shoot. You will likely see someone with a Perrazi or other high end gun looking for a spring or changing to his other trigger while the majority of shooters will be plugging along shooting their production berettas or Brownings.
Don't get me wrong.... I love my sxs guns. When I go to SDakota to hunt I take a 90 year old and a 100 year old LCSmith with me. I (am the only one) at my duck club with my LC Smith wildfowl or 10 ga LC., though many days I have my plastic Benelli. I shoot clays probably 20 days a year mostly with sxs guns....but I do believe we are a dying lot. I love my sxs, I didn't buy them as an investment, but to enjoy. I'll let my kid worry about what they sell for when I am shooting targets and hunting game up in the sky. Hopefully with the good grace of God, that won't be for a while
Jerry

Said I, (blushing) I bought an O/U last week...

I can tell you a good part of what is wrong w/ the CA SxS Society is that they are hidden. Incommunicado. I tried several times to contact them and got zip back. If you actually want new members perhaps you should go out looking for them instead of hoping they'll find some mystery door and stumble in. Making yourself known in the market place by being seen somewhere that OTHER shooters visit would be a good start.

" You will likely see someone with a Perrazi or other high end gun looking for a spring or changing to his other trigger while the majority of shooters will be plugging along shooting their production berettas or Brownings. "

Simple BS nothing less. The problems I've observed, but never experienced, with Perazzis were meathead owners. The guns I have are a trouble free as can be. But then, I take care of them in a proper fashion.

My experience with Perazzi shotguns, and I am indeed fond of their guns, is high performance, high maintenance.

Wonko
I am not sure how you think the CA SxS society is hiding. Did you ever try contacting anyone who was listed as a section president or organizer from the web site? For several years I ran the website and alway had the head of each chapter listed. I am sorry you feel that way.

If your in Nor Cal, you should have emailed Larry Shelton. He was our chapter president for years and was very supportive of all members and the club in general. You may know him from his book on Clabrough shotguns. If you don't have any hard feelings, pm me and I can put you in touch with the current chapter president who is the president of our statewide organization. I am sure we would love to have you come and join us. Because I am in Fresno and most of the shoots are in the Sacramento area, I don't get to as many shoots as I used to. I am a bit too busy at this point in my life. The Northern chapter has monthly shoots except during the hunting season. We also have a few hunts too, along with black powder and or muzzleloader events.

Re the Perazzi, I did not mean to offend you or any Perazzi owner. It was just a passing comment, more to make the point how reliable the production guns like a Browning and a Beretta are especially considering the cost difference... but come on, if Perazzi's are so reliable, why do they sell you two triggers? LOL

I have friends who are very big into competitive shooting and they have all tried many different high end guns with mixed results. And like many competitive shooters, some are constantly changing guns thinking it will give them an advantage. Speaking of mixed results, how about things like a Kreighoff receiver cracking! (They did replace the receiver for free and my friend WASN'T the original owner.) Maybe the real reason is as Buzz says...High performance, high maintenance.

Keep shooting and make sure your smiling when you do.

Jerry

Oh btw, for years I posted on this website when we had our all statewide gathering/shoot.... I never received ONE comment or message from anyone here.

Jerry,

In your experience, can a Beretta, Browning or CSMC Over/Under keep up with a Perazzi or Krieghoff in a highly competitive environment?

In other words, can they digest the loads that a Perazzi or Krieghoff can?

I have no dog in this fight, but just want your personal experience.

No offense taken, Jerry. However .......

Unless I am badly mistaken, Perazzi does not sell you two trigger sets with their guns, unless you ask for a second one. That's one of the great things about the guns .....the fact that you can have an extra trigger group that can be popped in in a few seconds. Does anyone really think that Perazzi designed such a sorry trigger set that they felt the need to make it instantly replaceable? Come on. If, and that is a definite if, Perazzi triggers are any more prone to doubling or other breakdown than any other high quality double it is because of the steels used in it's manufacture. I have read that Perazzi uses certain steels for the sears and hammers because they are balancing longevity of the hammers with the finest trigger pull that can be had on a shotgun which will be shot hundreds of thousands of times. It is a fine line. The action of a Perazzi is so strong and well fitted that my old Winchester imported MX8 still requires a push, or "bounce" to open the action when you push the top lever open! Imagine that, now. After all these years of shooting, and I have shot it hard for the last 10 or so, you still have to push down lightly on the barrels to open them, with the knuckle and trunnions well greased. That, my friends, is quality, and longevity. For comparison, I bought a NIB Beretta 687 SPII Sporting 20 ga., before my first trip to Argentina for doves. It was tight when it flew out of Miami that night, but it would open itself from the weight of the barrels after the second three-hour shoot there.

Re: Berettas and Brownings ......... Brownings aren't even in the ballpark as far as reliability goes. Sure, there are many thousands of them breaking clays, but they are being sent back to Browning for re-bolting constantly. I've been shooting sporting for probably 18-20 years, I'm losing count, but I have seen untold numbers of them opening after the first shot. One young man I shoot with occasionally used to have a rubber band around the top lever and grip to help prevent that because he did not have the funds to send it back to be fixed, at that time. Seen plenty of trigger problems with Brownings, too. Every time I mention this I have a couple people who post about the reliability with their Brownings ...... I have no beef with that. Maybe they got "good ones" or something. All I'm reporting is eyewitness accounts, and it continues to go on.

Berettas ........... probably the finest production O/U made, IMO. Deadly reliable and wonderful single triggers, same for the ejectors. The competition Berettas are extremely good guns. They will loosen up sooner than a Perazzi, but then they are not as expensive, either. And easily tightened back up. If there were no Perazzis I'd be shooting Berettas, most likely. They handle much the same, IMO, with the Perazzi having a slight edge in handling.

SRH

Kolar max-lite is a pretty sweet competition gun too. Krieghoff too and has the most pleasant trigger (although very complicated) of them all, imho. Lots of sporting guys are shooting the Krieghoff parcours. I'm not sure what to think of the Zoli guns...never have shot one but John Woolley told me they kick less than any other O/U which I find hard to believe, but.....

There is a big wide gap between a gun built to hunt and compete. A lot of people say that their shotgun has never had a problem over the years and with that experience say that their gun is as good as any gun built.

First question is, have you ever taken it to South America to hunt and the second, do you compete with it? The usual answer is no.

So how many rounds do you normally put through in a given year?
Hundreds of rounds each year.

How about a shotgun that digests hundreds of rounds in a weekend every weekend? Would your 'hunting' shotgun hold up under that?

I don't know but probably not.

I had a Hatfield longrifle rifle with a great Pedersoli barrel on it and did very well hunting and thought well I should try and get on this team.

http://www.kyclr.com/

Competing every month for that team wore that rifle out. The lock just couldn't hold up under the pounding it was getting. There's a big difference between the perspective you have on the concept of dependability of a firearm when you compete and you hunt wit it.