doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who is this Belgian artisan?

I need your help identifying the Belgian shotgun producer.
I post below some photos that may help.
I have the following main information:

1- In the barrel entitled to "F. Jacquemin Arq ?? "has more lyrics that I can not read because they are almost erased ...
2- In the left barrel the recording "92 Rue Cath�drale Liege" - four numbers below was the producer of shotguns "Masquelier Fr�res" ...
3- Belgian Proof marks
4- Number N.702
5- Caliber 12
6- "LJ" punch on scale
7- In the barrel below: JNO. HY. ANDREW & C� LTD. TOLEDO STEEL WORKS SHEFFIELD N
8- On one of the pillars of barrel "JABE"
9- 68 cm of barrel

Maybe this helps: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20ma/a%20masquelier%20fr.htm

Yeah, I don't recognize Arquebusier F. Jacquemin 92 Rue Cath�drale Li�ge right off and I think it odd using the term Arquebusier instead of Armurier, which considering the Li�ge mechanics. Maybe the mechanic was a transplant from France? He would have been all but next door neighbours to E. Masquelier � 88 Rue Cath�drale Li�ge. So the name Masquelier Fr�res puts it post 1911??? What are the tube makers initals?

Wonder what the N.702 is on the water-table & flats? Maybe a subcontractor N?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I have no more information or proof marks. All I have is the pictures and I hope, with the help of the experts, we can come to a conclusion about this unknown artisan.

Where might it be located? If it is in Spain or was imported thru Spain would that account for the stamp of the JABE in a rhombus? Or is that stamp not the same as the Spanish one?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The D = 70/20.7 mm is marking for a 2 3/4" chamber, 70mm (2.756") being the length & 20.7mm (.815") being the diameter of the chamber just ahead of the rim seat.. The little rampant lion over PV shows smokeless powder proof. It would however have been proofed for CIP standards, NOT US SAAMI spec loads.

Yes I bought this shotgun in Spain and the stamp of the JABE may have been marked when some adjustment that its owner had made. Perhaps?

Regards,
Luis

I'm not sure that the mark denotes an alteration, but maybe just an importer's stamp. I don't see any Spanish proofmarks, or have I overlooked them?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Do not have any Spanish proof marks.
Maybe just an importer's stamp.

The 70mm chambers suggest the gun was made after WWI BUT there is no lettre annale, so prior to 1921.

After the Belgian proof house revisions of 1924, a Certificat d�epreuve could be issued and specified:
�The pressure developed, measured by crusher type device, lower or equal to 600 kg per square centimeter for sizes 16, l2, 10, 8 & 4; 670 kg per square inch for sizes 20, 24 and smaller.�
600 kg/cm2 = 8534 psi maximum SERVICE pressure;
670 kg/cm2 = 9530 psi maximum SERVICE pressure
+ 10 - 14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement
12g was PROVED at 900 kg/cm2 = 12,801 psi
Modern transducer numbers would be about 14,000 psi

JNO. HY. ANDREW & CO. LTD. TOLEDO STEEL WORKS SHEFFIELD appears on high grade between the wars doubles of several Liege makers; including Verney-Carron, Jules Bury, Nicolas Lajot, L. Christophe & F. Thonon
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20t%20w/a%20thonon%20fernand%20gb.htm
It is unclear if the tubes were manufactured in Liege or England.