doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New Member, New to me Francotte Shotgun

Hello
My name is Terry Mair from Utah, I have been reading several of the threads, a lot of info here.

I found me an Auguste Francotte shotgun, I love it, until Saturday I had never even herd of this maker, but it seams to be a tight little gun.

Here is a link to photos of it:

http://mairdutchovenlifter.com/Shotgun/

I am wondering if anyone could give me any information on the gun, date of manufacture, what kind of steel it is made of, (I know it is not any of the twist type barrels, but don't know if it is something like Krupp, or extruded or what) and even tho I do not want to sell it what kind of value does it have, other than I love the thing

On the photos of the Barrels what looks like bare metal is reflection, and finger prints, yes I fondle it...a lot!, it does have some ware on the muzzle ends, and one little spot on the left hand barrel on the bottom like it has been in a rack or something.

Edited to add: the serial number is: 64745 and that number is on every part of the gun.

Thanks Terry

Contact Bob Beach at Griffin and Howe in NJ. They have those records and can tell you a lot about the gun and its history.

hi terry,
Francotte knockabout guns were in their low to middle grade,as I understand it, your basic Francotte boxlock, with not much engraving, but I believe the working parts would be very well put together, just not as fancy as higher priced models.
According to the dates on in the Other useful Information page the 64xxx would place it around 1907.
I would get it checked out by a gunsmith who knows old doubles,especially the barrels, to check the wall thickness, chamber length and general shoot-ability etc...just to be safe.
Do you reload your own shells?...I'd suggest lowish pressure shells
A lot can happen to a nice old gun in 110 years....most of it bad
Francottes are nice guns..even the plain ones
cheers n good luck with it..
franc

these von le & de knockabout guns are wonderfully light weight and well balanced...wheather made by francotte or sauer they are delightful hunting guns...most of these that i have seen are well used and beat up...not yours; it is a nice one...enjoy...

and, i like your recipes...

you suggest ground beef in your shepherd's pie...i prefer ground lamb...your thoughts?

also, how does one regulate temperature in a dutch oven?

Here's a Bob Beach quote from another thread:

James is correct. Here are some additional details. The following is from a publication that I am preparing on the Francotte models.

"Knockabout � Prior to 1905 the VL&D Knock About model was made in Germany by the firm of J.P. Sauer & Son. In 1905 the Knock About began to be produced in Belgium by Auguste Francotte. VL&D importation of all Sauer shotguns ceased in 1904 and did not resume until 1926. The Sauer built Knock About was a sidelock gun while the Francotte gun was a boxlock model. Apparently VL&D wished to replace the Sauer Knock About with a similarly priced, utility grade, but well-constructed, gun. While VL&D chose Francotte to manufacture the replacement, there is at least one example of a Belgian-made VL&D marked Knockabout sidelock model that may have been received as a sample prior to the decision to import the Francotte boxlock.


The Francotte Knockabout was a hammerless Anson & Deeley boxlock and was available initially only as an extractor gun, but in 1905 the ejector model was added. The lockup system consisted of a double under-bolt, an exposed Greener cross-bolt and a doll�s head rib extension. Initially, this model was available only with a half pistol grip and the gauges offered were 12, 16, and 20 with the first 10 gauge being received in December 1906. Knockabout guns had barrels described in the catalog as being made of �Nimrod Steel�. Initially, the Knockabout was available in barrel lengths of 26, 28, and 30 inches in the 12 gauge with a very few 32 inch barreled guns received as well. The Knock About was available with 30 and 32 inch barrels in the 10 gauge. Weight was between 6 � and 8 pounds. Retail prices before 1910 were: Ejector guns - $80 in 12, 16, 20, and 28 gauges and $85 in 10 gauge; Non-ejector guns - $60 in 12, 16, 20, and 28 gauges and $65 in 10 gauge."


Regards
Ken

Your gun is in the Griffin and Howe records. Contact Mr. Beach.

Terry,
That is a good looking old gun. Congrats.

Ed,
It is too late for you to go into the Boy Scouts, now. If you were meant to cook food, in a Dutch oven, as opposed to gun frames, with acetylene, you would know by now.


Best,
Ted

Thank you all for the replies!!

Just wondering how do I get a hold of Mr Beach? I have no idea.

@ Franc, I had looked at the serial numbers on that page, it put the gun as part of the medium grade guns that Francotte made, to be honest I thought perhaps I was missing something when I figured the date as 1907, which is part of what led me to look at this site, this gun is almost like new, the bores are shiny and bright, no pitting, the blue is almost perfect, and the wood only has a couple of light scrapes which I would bet came from being handled in the gun store I got it at, the action locks up like a vault, nice and tight, almost like it has never been shot, and the cool part is I got for what I thought was an excellent price considering I have been looking for a nice light English straight stock type gun, I have a few doubles with pistol grips but only this with the English type, and the wrist is so slender, It feels like one of my 20ga O/Us...but better!!
I do reload, and have been putting together some low pressure loads for it, I ordered some bismuth so I can load some low pressure waterfowl loads for the early season ducks, which is about the only hunt I do, later I will switch to my Ruger red label, or one of my double 10s, but dang they are heavy!

@ Ed, to be honest I have no idea, my father was into dutch oven cooking, he and I invented the Mair Lifter, and my son cooks a lot, so I guess it skips a generation, but I think it is all about how many coals you put on top of, and under the oven.
As for lamb, I have only had lamb one time, that was in Reno NV, and I am not so sure they knew what they were doing, so I really can't comment on that one.

Thanks again to all of you!!
Terry

Welcome to the site
Send a PM
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=312

review these marks

http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

Thank you!!

This does bring up a question, I have looked at Belgian proof marks, ON this gun I don't see the proof mark for smokeless powder, I would think it would have been late enough to use smokeless, as I mentioned in my OP it does not have any kind of twist barrel on it, did they just not prof any/all shotguns for smokeless powder, or would this be some kind of exception?

Also does any one know what nimrod steel is? I know it says that on the barrels, and some one mentioned it in a reply, but I cannot find any reference to it on the web.

Thanks again.
Terry