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kirkp Offline OP
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Hello all, as you can guess, I'm still puttering around with this Meriden 20ga double. I disassembled the lockplate assemblies to clean them up and see what could be done about the warp in the lockplates. They are pretty thin, only about 3/32". During disassembly, I noticed that the mainsprings were different on the two lockplates. One spring measures about .19" thick and the other is about .23" thick. In comparing the thicker spring with one from a 12ga I have, I'm about 100% sure that at some point in time, a 12ga spring was used to replace a lost/broken 20ga spring.

My question has to do with getting the spring to fit properly. There is a post with a recess at the back of the lockplate that is intended to help retain the spring. The thicker spring doesn't fit into the recess properly. What is the possibility that I could file the end of the spring to fit? The filing would take place at the bend in the spring. My gut feeling is that I'll be told that filing will ruin the spring but have to ask anyway.

Thanks
Kirk

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Filing on the peg wouldn't hurt the spring, but it probably won't work because of the temper, unless you have a tiny diamond coated file. You may be able to work it down with a small stone. I have a little triangular India stone about three inches long that I would try for this, were I to do so. If a stone will cut it, you can work very slowly working it down to the right size to fit into the hole in the lockplate.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools...s-prod9618.aspx

It's the triangular one.

If you try this, be careful not to undercut into the leaf of the spring itself, or to leave any groove anywhere. I would not be afraid to try this at all.

SRH

Last edited by Stan; 12/28/17 09:51 AM. Reason: clarification

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Either thin the entire .230 width spring to fit,,that'd make it the same width as the other (orig 20ga?) spring and fit the peg already installed in the plate.
..or simply widen the slot in the peg to accept the wider spring.
The peg and plate though case hardened are probably easily cut w/a file,,many are.
If the file skips off the hardened surface, just anneal the peg by heating it (peg) till it turns blue and let it cool. No need to turn it red or heat the entire plate with it.

Does the wider .230 spring seem to fit the lock works OK?,,no binding with the lock bridle in place due to it's greater width?
These guns were not fitted with the greatest of precision and the differences in the springs may just be from that or from different era of mfg.
Work around it, but don't over analyze it.

If the lock plate is warped, that too may be preventing the bend from properly seating into the slot in the peg as it puts it out of allaignment slightly.
Bent lockplates especially thin ones even if hard (case hardened) can be straightened with a lead or rawhide mallet on a hard, flat surface with a few careful taps.
Don't over do it, they actually bend quite easily.

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Do I understand you correctly, kirk, that the peg is a part of the lower leaf of the spring, and is supposed to protrude through a hole in the lockplate to keep it in position? That is how all I ever worked on were made.

I get the impression that Kutter and I are not "on the same page" concerning this set-up.

SRH


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could overly heavy replacement springs be the reason for the warped plates.....


gunut
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I believe Kutter is right to consider thinning the entire spring, if that's what it needs. Thinning just the bend, i don't think will hurt it as a spring, but may put all the action of the spring at the bend and not distribute the forces along the leafs.

It may be slow going, but I think you can thin the spring by working it on a flat plate with oiled wet and dry sheet abrasives. If it functions as a spring, the temper of the steel will be plenty workable. If you thin it with a power tool, I'd try to hold it by hand to stop if you feel heat, but that's probably not so easy to do. Don't lean towards the ends of the leafs, they may cut quicker than the bend, and consider breaking any sharp corners that might form.

If these springs are hard to come by, maybe you could trace out both of them and measure an bunch of different points on them to save as a reference. Best of luck with it.

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kirkp Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. Getting over the flu and finally feel like doing something besides praying to the porcelain god.

In looking back I don't think that I was clear enough on what I was dealing with. Pics help and had to find something to replace photobucket.

Here's a pic of one of the sideplates with the spring sitting in place. This happens to be the plate with what I assume is the original spring (thinner).



Stan, the post (on the left) is permanently attached to the side plate. The post was filed/milled? to accept the end of the spring. Here's another pic of a assembled lockplate which as it turns out is the one with the heavier spring. The 20ga lockplate is on the left and the one on the right is a 12ga assembly I have. You can see that the spring is barely retained by the post. The post isn't much taller than the spring height and it looks like the post with the heavier spring was filed a bit to get minimal engagement of the spring.



Kutter, I don't think that the post could be filed to accept the thicker spring. I'd end up pretty much eliminating anything to retain the end of the spring. The thicker spring seems to work okay with no binding, at least not that I noticed using a dowel to push the hammer back. Dimensionally the springs are very close to one another. I'll reassemble it to make sure there aren't any problems.

gunut, that's a good question. Both side plates were warped but the one with the heavier spring was worse. Maybe because of the poor engagement with the post????

My thoughts moving forward unless I'm told otherwise would be to straighten the plate and see if that improves spring engagement. Assuming it doesn't, I was thinking about filing the end of the spring to get it to fit.

Thanks for your help
Kirk

Last edited by kirkp; 12/29/17 03:42 PM. Reason: correct link
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Make sure when moving the spring down into the slot in the post (either by thinning the spring or widening the slot),,that the position of the spring does not change with reference to the engagement point on the hammer.

The upper leg of the main spring and that engagement is what holds the spring in place horizontaly.
The tip of the leg that engages the hammer directly should just barely seat into the shallow notch in the hammer while the back end at the bend sits firmly in that slot in the post.
That keeps the spring from shuffling back and forth during operation but still moves freely in it's arc of motion.

That small mainspring lock screw directly above the spring near the back end keeps the spring in place verticly (along with the lower leg bearing onto the sear).
That screw looks like a replacement (round head screw?), but maybe in the 20 they used a headed screw in place of the headless used in the 12ga guns.
The head on that screw may be helping to secure the mainspring down onto the plate(?), just wondering as that is what it looks like from here. The 20ga mainspring looks like a replacement from some other gun to me but again 20ga Meridens are an unkn.

Have fun,,The Meriden guns are a decent shotgun IMO.
The spring(s) you should be able to file to shape with any decent, sharp hand file.
Straighten out the lockplate first before you do anything else.

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kirkp Offline OP
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Thanks Kutter.
Good point on making sure that the position of the main spring doesn't change. The lock screw on the other 20ga lockplate is a headless screw. I switched out the buggered up one with one from my 12ga sideplate. The round head screw you see is another reason I thought that maybe this spring is a replacement. Also, it wasn't providing any hold down of the spring. I also looked at the thicker spring in response to your question about binding. It turn out that the portion under the bridle is the same height as the smaller spring.

Curious about your comment that the 20ga spring looks like a replacement. Are you referring to the left lockplate in the second pic? If so, that's the one that I think may have come off of a 12ga as a replacement. Sorry, I wasn't very clear about that.

Got to thinking about the comment about fit and finish not always being the best. I would guess it's possible that on a lower level gun being cranked out for Sears, they didn't spend a lot of time. As long as it works, make things fit and get it out the door.

Kirk

Last edited by kirkp; 12/29/17 07:16 PM. Reason: formatting
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kirkp Offline OP
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Craig, just saw your post and thanks for the reply. Messing with it a bit and think that I'll work with thinning the entire spring. The spring files pretty easily so shouldn't take too long to do. Need to make sure that I don't leave any cuts that might create a stress point.

Kirk

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