doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Duplicating the 12 gauge pigeon load

Today I was at Graf and Sons stocking up on reloading supplies for my skeet and trap loads, and there was a bag of 1 1/4 ounce twelve gauge wads, for the bargain price of five dollars.

Being a hoarder of all things of that nature, I bought 500 Downrange Winchester clone 12 gauge 1 1/4 ounce wads, for Winchester AA or Remington one piece 2 3/4" hulls.

My intent is to roll up some pigeon loads, the same as Michael McIntosh and Bob Brister wrote about, and that were used by gentlemen at Monte Carlo shooting for a thousand pounds sterling per pigeon, while beautiful ladies with long, swan like necks watched in admiring approval.

There are some wild pigeons in Missouri, and plenty of doves, every fall. I'd like some live pigeon loads to shoot at them.

What speed am I looking to drive an ounce and a quarter of hard shot out of my shotgun, to duplicate live pigeon loads?

Thanks for any advice.

You're looking for 1220fps. That was the 3 1/4 X 1 1/4 load. Look to Unique powder. PB if you can find any. Anywhere 1220-1270 will make you happy.

Thanks for the information. I have some Winchester 540 (same as HS 6) and Unique that is listed as suitable for 1,220ish fps loads using AA HS Winchester hulls and my Winchester clone wads.

I think I'll use the Winchester 540 to burn some of it up, and the recipe calls for 30 grains of W540 using a 402 Hornady bushing, which ought to leave more room in the hull than 23 grains of Unique, using a 453 bushing (same as for Red Dot, BTW). You can't ever leave too much room in a AA HS hull for wad and shot, I've found.:)

Now to buy a bag of the hardest #6 shot I can find.

They did use #6, for the live pigeon loads, didn't they?

I think they used 7 1/2. I think that might be overkill for small birds that you plan to eat. It's a pretty nice load for pheasants with no. 6.

Note that there is no one definitive pigeon load. Flyer shooters choose what they like best and what their gun likes best. Many shot, and shoot, 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 loads, which run at 1330, or thereabouts. RST's 3 3/4 load is favored by a few top guns. It is labeled as 1350 and has plated shot. I have always favored the 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 load, but now that I have my own patterning plate I intend to scrutinize the difference in it and the 3 1/4 - 1 1/4 load more closely. Less recoil may pay off on how quickly that second shot is taken, and the slower load may pattern better in some guns..

Pigeon shooting, as we know it, began with muzzleloaders and black powder. Club rules back then allowed up to 4 drams, with a few clubs allowing as high as 5 drams, according to C. Adam's book. This was drams, of course, not dram equivalents, as they were using black, but the velocity for a 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 load with black was the same as a current 3 3/4 - 1 1/4 load with smokeless.

SRH

Has anyone had any experience with these? They seem to be in the same arena as the above mentioned loads.

https://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_1002103_-1__

That talk of black powder muzzle loader pigeon shooters, gives me more reason to buy hard #7 1/2 shot. I own a Pedersoli muzzle loader double shotgun, with chrome lined bores, choked tight and tighter.

We take modern loads for granted. The old muzzle loaders must have been particular about the loads they were fed, or at least my reproduction is. Mine loves equal one ounce measures of FFG and and 7 1/2 shot, and doesn't like equal measures of one and an eight ounces of shot and blackpowder much at all, according to the pattern plate at our club.

Maybe it would like equal measures of 1 1/4 ounces of shot and black powder, although it might kick like a rented mule with that load.

Most clubs frown on any size shot larger than 7 1/2.

But a few bags of 7 1/2 would be good for trap, game, Annie Oakley shoots, and almost anything else, when it comes down to it.

You'll need some DuPont Bulk or "E.C." and "Winchester Black Edge Wads"

1904



1906 "Target Loads"

6% antimony underneath and true nickel electroplating on top.

Go get 'em.

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=SH&i=NP712

I don't know why that addy won't link, but just copy and paste it in.

SRH

For years I loaded 32 grains of 540, a graphited Remington live bird wad and 1.25 oz of hard 4's in a blue majic hull. We cronographed it at 1450 fps and it would shoot through a mallard at 60 yards. Patterns were super. The things that made it work were graphite (speed) and the live bird wad. The fingers were .25 longer than a AA red. I believe it is gone.

bill