doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Price for these aren't flat...

How about a converted Model 12 to 410 of questionable providence selling for $18,000.00?


Parkers guys aren't the only ones.

Parker didn't produce a .410 until 1924 and they were not available to the public as a catalog item until 1927....approximately 460 + or - were produced in all grades with the majority being V grades. (Ronald S. Gabriel; American & British .410's)....the only rarer Parker gauge is the 10 gauge 3 1/2" magnum with steel barrels - around 93 were produced. Winchester produced fewer model 21's in .410 than Parker did.
As far as the .410 being a "kiddie gauge ill suited to putting meat on the table" - that is rank and utter bull shizzle.

All I'm saying is struggling member of family wanting to fill ice box with feathered game would choose 12ga or 16ga in something like Model 1897. Fewer missed birds means saving of time and ammo. Unless given no options they would gun for Ducks, Geese, Pheasant,......It take lot of them small birds to fill ice box and lot of feather pullin' for little meat. There is nothing wrong in using "Kiddie Gauge" for sport shooting little birds, but it seems kind of pointless for the pot unless all one has available is the "Kiddie Gauge".

Not surprising at all. I recall seeing a nice VH grade .410 for sale thirty years ago for 17K.

Several years ago, I was invited to go to a home a few blocks from my office to look at a .410 VHE Skeet gun. The two owners, brothers, explained that the gun had belonged to their uncle, who farmed in rural Northern Virginia, now serious horse country. His neighbors were the Mellon and Mars families. The gun was the first honest, all original, field worn .410 Skeet I had ever seen. I asked if the uncle had shot skeet with the little Parker. Nope, Uncle had never seen a skeet field. All the gun had ever shot was quail. They further explained that the choice of a .410 was driven by the price of the ammunition.

Not everyone is poor and struggling like you Jagermeister... and after 8 years of Hope and Change from your Messiah Obama too! Plenty of people have always bought guns in smaller gauges or in higher grades than what is required for bare-bones meat hunting to fill the pot. And plenty of guys have chosen .410 shotguns to start their kids out hunting. Because of demand, there are probably more .410's being built today than 16 gauge guns, but that certainly has nothing to do with overall suitability for meat hunting. You don't own even one lousy double gun, so it is somewhat understandable that you have to worry and fret about wasting a shotshell or two. You also revealed the extent of your ballistics knowledge when you said that the .410 is ill suited for taking game. There are millions of rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, etc. that would say you are wrong again... if they were still able to after being killed with .410 shotguns.

In the years that you've made over 9000 posts here, there have been plenty of threads where guys recounted killing larger birds and game than doves or quail with their .410's, including wild ringnecks and turkeys. Many good shooters choose smaller gauges to add a bit of sport and challenge to their hunting or shooting. So long as they are aware of the limitations and are disciplined enough to limit their ranges to maintain adequate pattern density, they know a few pellets launched at 1200 feet per second have the exact same effect on game or clay targets whether they were fired from a .410 or a 10 gauge. In fact, those individual pellets from the 10 gauge will have much lower velocity and kinetic energy at 50 yards than the same size pellets from the .410 at 25 yards.

I put many a dove, quail, and even ducks on the table when I was a kid with a single shot, break open .410.....not that my family was poor and struggling, but from 7 years old on until I noticed girls had definitely grown up in high school, I preferred to be in the fields and woods with a gun than in front of a TV. I learned how to stalk and hunt with that "limited range" .410. One old gentleman of my acquaintance hunts sandhill cranes with stuffer decoys and when they light in the decoys, he shoots one in the head with a .410 and lets the others shoot them as they rise.....he always gets his limit. Never sell the .410 short.

This post is not intended to either commend or condemn the use of a .410 by those who do so responsibly & understand its limitations, the more power to them. I also understand my own personal limitations which is why I do not nubber myself among them. I will say though it has been a long time indeed since anyone has truly shot a .410 for reasons of economy.

If ones desire is the most economy without benefit of reloading then the only gauges to consider are the 12 & 20. These in guns which will digest the promo loads from the "Big Box" marts. You can't shoot any cheaper than that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a good 20 gauge single for starting a newbie into this wonderful world of shotgunning incidentally.

Eightbore, I wish my uncle used a 410 Parker for quail instead of the much, much less valuable 410 he did use. Then again half my family might have sought out his gun then. As it is I got his gun and bought his farm because nobody else wanted them as much as I did.

I grew up shooting a Winchester Model 12 28 ga. Skeet gun which at one time was a much sought after gun. My father gave it to me for my only Christmas present when I was 12. He most likely figured I'd grow tired of it and ask for a deer rifle in its place like my brother had for his Browning Superposed Christmas present the year before. He'd keep it for quail and buy me a rifle in its place. I still have it. If I live to be a hundred I'll never equal the game it took or memories with it. I use to go through four or five full cases of shells hunting with it every year. When I started out duck hunting we still had ten bird limits, dove were not that big of a thing and I could find a dozen coveys any day of the week. Best day was 31 covey with a new pointer I bought. Those were the days.