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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1 |
I've also posted this on SS/BBS. Thanks in advance for your expertise. I have acquired a 16 gauge (of course) Bayard hammergun that I am trying to date. Serial #5582. It has the PV nitro proof mark and the ELG* in an oval final proof. There seems to be an inspectors mark of "r" over an "*." 16c in a diamond. Fluid steel, mono-block 29" barrels with the Bayard Cavalryman on both with "Anciens Establissments Pieper Herstal. Back action locks with "Machine Made Safety Action Bayard Gun" on both sides of the frame.    When I got the gun it was a typical continental shotgun. I've had the swivels removed and plugged, the cheekpiece removed, it's been straight gripped, refinished, recheckered, and a Galazan "Silvers" pad installed on the curve so the horn butt plate could be reinstalled. The barrels had previously been reblued and it retains about 80% original case colors. It weighs 6 lbs. 3 oz. and balances a hair in front of the hinge pin. Choked .007R and .021L, I intend it to be a Prairie Chicken and Rooster gun as well as a fun target gun. I wish I had pics of the proof marks, but I don't have a good enough camera. These were taken by a friend. Thanks for your help, sv
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
Very pretty gun. Your friend took some very nice pictures too. As far as dating it, since you don't have any pictures of the proofs, take a look at pages 3 and 4 of the thread "Please help me identify my rifle!" There are a couple of images that should help you determine year of make and inspector.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 720 |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1 |
Storm, that was my idea as well, but I can't find any of the "date" markings or any of the inspector's marks either. The inspectors marks shown in that table have an * over a capital letter. Mine has a lower case "r" with the * under it.
sv
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Steve, This is a refinement of the Pieper Diana grade guns. Under the Bayard brand they turned them out for some time. I have a 28ga that was made in 1948.  Without actually seeing the proof marks, it is difficult to date. I happen to have a fondness for hammer guns. I used this one last year on grouse and quail. They are good working guns. Pete
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,274 Likes: 1 |
Steve the 16 c in a diamond dates the gun before 1924, if the choke and bore marks are in a fraction format it indicates 1910 to 1924, if it is marked "choke 17.0" it is 1898 to 1910. this should narrow it down a bit.
jim
I learn something every day, and a lot of times it's that what I learned the day before was wrong
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1 |
Jim-it is marked "choke 16.8" so it falls into your 1898-1910 range. Following the "littlegun" info in the European Proof Marks thread, the marking of "Anciens Establissements Pieper" was used starting in 1905.....so, according to your info, we're now at 1905-1910. Thank you.
PeteM-I want your 28 gauge!!!!! Seriously, do you know where there might be one?
Last edited by steve voss; 05/31/07 11:57 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Steve, Your 16ga looks to be in great condition. I picked up the 28ga on Gun Broker. They appear there every so often. They are a fraction of the cost, because they are Belgian, but you already know that.  Pete
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 1 |
Pete, I probably paid too much for it and it's still a fabulous buy. When I saw it I didn't know anything about them so just "bought the gun." I wish he'd had about 5 more of them.
These guns lock up tighter than anything I've ever looked at. Double Purdey underbites with two recoil lugs through the bottom of the frame, a third fastener (Kerstner?) that moves in and out of the left ball, and a hidden FOURTH fastener that hooks into a notch in the rear of the barrel extension. If it weighed a little more and if the wrist on mine weren't so thin since the surgery, I'd be tempted to shoot dynamite in it.
Last edited by steve voss; 06/01/07 10:11 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
james-l,
If it's not too much trouble, could you please explain more about your post that cites Belgian dating info based on choke marks? As it turns out, there is at least three conflicting Belgian date code tables in circulation. I was hoping to use your dating information to cross check all three tables, in hopes of flushing out the most accurate one. Thanks in advance...Bob Chambers
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