doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hey Ted: French doubles on gunsinternational

Some unusual ones: A Petrik OU (not in very good shape); Charlin sliding breech OU; and a stunning pair of Vouzelaud 20ga boxlocks (but with 3" of drop). The Vouzelaud sidelock I used to own is also on there. Turned out to be Belgian, but reproofed in France and, I think, entirely redone. But Vouzelaud thought highly enough of it to put their name on it. A lot of gun for the money.

Look at this one,

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100741137

especially the colors.

Another unknown masterpiece,

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100964862


Another top maker that sells for bargain basement prices,

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100933099

These French makers are incredible.

Referencing the second gun above: http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100964862

Pretty sure it's chambered for 6.5 and proofed for PT (1900-1912). It also seems to have the Zavattero Freres "CZ" mark signifying the Cynea Model (post 1920?). Barrel SN is 69586 (mid 1930's?).





This is interesting for a couple of reasons as intimated by the confusing info above. DGS's poster "Builder" in the below line had a similar ZFr Cynea gun for sale on this board for $600...It had been subject of two lines in fact. It had 6.5 cm chambers and SN 72,621. And it may even have had Jean Breuil barrels. At the time we weren't sure of the SN or of the 6.5. I believed the Cynea model didn't come out until 1920 and Neltir had a 1951 date for ZF SN 97,701 more or less.

Now this gun appears and we'll have to reevaluate the ZFr SN progression and the dating of his models (perhaps ZFr barrels had a different SN?) or more radical, ZFr alone decided to continue to use cm for chamber stamps until WWII?:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...9625#Post489625

Post from the above line:
ZFr was founded in 1880 and lasted until 1967. (This gun doesn't have the CZ or FZ stamps which were ZFr models which came out in the 1920's).

I don't know the SN of the ZFr gun we commented on above (previous) line - it wasn't photographed. I believe the guns were consecutively numbered more or less....and will try to expand on this. There's a ZFr gun on Passion la chasse SN 97701 with a comment by Neltir which he dated to July 1951.
(Graph points:
.....1880 - 0;
.....1910 - 49697;
.....1951 - 97701 ( minus four years 1914-1918)(and 5 years 1940-45)
a graph could be constructed but the SN's for the company must exist somewhere because Neltir had the SN down to the month).
(http://www.passionlachasse.com/t22381-identification-fusil-juxtapose

With a very creative description~~~

"Carved mustache with H&H filet extending across the underbelly of action"

The Super Charlin has been for sale for years. I have never found them to be ergonomic, simply unique for the sake of being unique. The same "for sale all the time" with the Pratt and Whitney engineer's Charlin, it seems once someone buys the thing, they list it the same day. I could see myself looking around on the ground for one of the gold inlays, after I patterned the gun and it fell off. I really don't like gold on guns.
The other Charlin was at Barnett's for a long time, if I am not mistaken. Charlins are spectacular guns, you always hear how smooth they open compared to a Darne, but, that is only when they are already cocked-you have to tug a Charlin opening lever just as hard as a Darne opening lever after the gun has been fired. For my use, I have always preferred a Darne, R and V, in that order. Others, sometimes, feel differently. Being a lefty always requires compromise, and I'm resigned to having stock work done in order to get what I need.
We have a bunch of guys right here who crow all the time about how wonderful 3" of drop is for them, but, I can't make it work. On any gun.
If the right Petric came along, I'd be the huckleberry for it, but, I'm pretty safe right here in the middle of the US. I handled a long barreled 20 Petric in St Etienne, that took my breath away, but, I was broke on the day I saw it, and a bit overwhelmed from seeing too much shotgun eye candy during my trip-that will happen when you hang out, eat, and drink too much with French gunmakers of all stripes for a few weeks.
I want to have my V19 restocked to fit this fall, and start moving the stuff I don't use to people who will during the year. I'm a little nervous about selling modern guns that will handle any non toxic shot, however. The future always gets uglier, not better, from a birdhunters perpective, from what I have seen. I'm not a buyer, today, Larry.
Good luck if you are shopping, Mr. Brown.

Best,
Ted

The first gun, Verney Carron - SN A1477 - trying to figure out what the "A" stands for..."S" was Sagitarius..has to be a model? Or does it? Anyone have an idea how VC numbered their guns? A lot seem to have a letter in front of a 3 or 4 digit number. It's offered for $15,000? which seems cher.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100741137

Here's a VC side lock on naturabuy for Euro 3,200...with colors every bit as good (maybe a little garish for America taste? and with stock lengthened, chambered for 65 and a 12ga). (Ted..it's left-handed).

https://www.naturabuy.fr/VERNEY-CARRON-platines-item-839603.html

There is a nice piece once sold through well known Parisian gun peddler. GI 100968925 nice mid-grade double proly made NE of France in Herstal, Belgium.

I believe the correct name for that model is "Sagitair". That name has been applied to a few models of O/U guns by VC over the years.

Best,
Ted

weee weeee

Ted, you are right on Sagitair. As Ted and Larry have pointed out numerous times, this from VC: "Unfortunately, we are unable to give any information on any of our production which is over 30 years old as almost all our archives were destroyed by a flood when we moved our headquarters in 1980." So VC serial numbers would need to be rebuilt using other markers as done with Reilly and others. VC made - what...maybe 500,000 guns from 1890-1980? That would be an epic task...but I'll see what can be done.