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Originally Posted By: 992B
It's likely my gun in 1960 passed through some graying German's hands in Suhl, that was a young apprentice when Imperial Germany's armies invaded Belgium, and got close enough to Paris, to hear the bells of the Cathedral of Notre Dame. He was paid by the billions of marks in 1923, to make the same shotgun, that he kept making after Hitler committed suicide and Germany was divided by the victorious allies. There's even a chance he lived to see Germany reunited again in 1992, when he was an ancient, old man.

His grandson could still be making the same shotgun in Suhl, today.

History is always so fascinating because of the "what ifs".

What if William II had not been a breech baby? Was it his withered arm that caused him to be so pompous, vain, and insecure, as to allow some damned fool thing in the Balkans to plunge the entire world into the horrors of the First World War?

Or what if his Cousin Nicky in Russia, had told the Serbs that they had allowed the Black Hand to murder the archduke, and they'd better submit unconditionally to the Austrian Ultimatum, or find themselves on their own, as the cost of regicide.

Had there been no World War One, Czar Nicholas might have died of old age and been replaced by another Czar. William II would have lived to 1942 and been replaced by his son. Hitler would have remained anonymous, and there would have been no myth of the Stab in the Back for him to have spread to try and restore Germany's greatness.

Or what if Francis Ferdinand, had simply went hunting stags with his Merkel, instead of taking that trip with Sophie to Sarajevo?

The Model 8 is silent, and says nothing about the history of the men who made it, or the adventures it's had since it's birth in 1960.

But it surely is a fine old shotgun, just as tight as new, and with most of the bluing still on the barrels, and it's walnut as fresh now, after a tiny bit of linseed oil, as it was the year before the Berlin Wall was put up.











Ah, a student of history, wonderful! Yep, alternate history can be lots of fun, so many different scenarios that could have played out and the results that would have effected our lives. I wouldn't be typing this if WWII didn't happen. Dad met Mom just before he went overseas. Who knows how the world would look today. Interesting to say the least.

Just a minor correction, Wilhelm II died in 1941. To me he is a most fascinating individual, there were so many different sides to his personality, as you said, vain, coincided, but also kind and could be very down to earth. Overall fairly popular with his people, unlike the Crown Prince who was not liked by almost everyone. I always liked the story when Wilhelm was on a shoot, someone said "For Gods sake, don't shoot the Kaiser, look what we'll get". True or not, it's a great story.

Best,

Greg


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Kaiser Wilhelm II did die in 1941, and he was succeeded by his son the Crown Prince as head of the Hohenzollern family, who lived only until 1951. By a complicated series of events, the current head of the Hohenzollern dynasty is this man, George Friedric and his lovely wife, Princess Sophie. They have several sons, and are still young enough to have more.




They also sometimes reside in the family castle, still in possession of the Hohenzollern family. I wonder, if he shoots a Merkel?



It was often said of his great grandfather, Wilhelm II, that he was more fickle, than false. Whoever was the last to be with him, would influence him enough that he'd convince himself his next swaggering, narcissistic, pompous, boastful, speech sprang from his own mind.

And all this, a century before Twitter politics, became normalized.

Perhaps today, Wilhelm II would have spent himself on Twitter, and his armies would not have marched on Belgium.

The everlasting ifs accumulate, it's been well said.

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For whatever it is worth, unless my memory fails me, the Ernst Thalmann works was the old Simson factory. I think the Simson family was able to recover their property after the German reunification.
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In 1992, the reunited German government made a polite request from Poland for the return of East Prussia and German cities lost to the Treaty of Versailles, The last installment due for the war debt clauses of the Treaty of Versailles was made October 3, 2010. As an old friend of mine astutely observed, Germany regrets losing both World Wars, but isn't the slightest bit sorry about fighting them.

Yet Kaiser Bill still influences the fate of nations, beyond the grave. Imperial Germany did not tolerate draft dodgers, and had strict laws concerning treasonous activities, and unlawful emigration and immigration, and deported a returning Fredrich Drumpf for illegally emigrating to America, to avoid Prussian military service. His sons, Americanizing their surnames to Trump, would go on to become wealthy in New York real estate, and his grandson the President of the United States of America.




I doubt Fredric Drumpf would have stooped to have shot a Model 8.

He sounds more likely to have favored the products of Ansley Fox, who made the Finest Gun in the World, according to company literature.

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Most interesting and amusing tid-bit of info. Most of the time there's a bar that when removed will be the disconnect for the aggravating automatic safety.

Cheers,

Raimey
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Too, look on the underside of the aft lug & the Modell designation may be stamped there.

Cheers,

Raimey
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As to the gun, it appears to be a nice one. I do not however understand the reference to the scalloped rear of the action looking like an L C Smith. The L C Smith is a side lock & looks nothing at all like this.


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Originally Posted By: 2-piper
As to the gun, it appears to be a nice one. I do not however understand the reference to the scalloped rear of the action looking like an L C Smith. The L C Smith is a side lock & looks nothing at all like this.


A better comparison would have been the sculpted sides of an Ithaca NID.



The action of a Model 8 J.P. Sauer seems to be nearly identical to the same product branded as a Simpson or Merkel, except the sculpting of the sides of the action. The scalloped rear of the actions where they mate to the stock, can also vary.

I took my Model 8 apart and saw where there is a push bar to activate the automatic safety. It's made of forged steel, and all part of the safety mechanism itself, and to have ground or cut it off short seemed almost an act of vandalism. I might later modify the safety, but not for now.

These are fine guns, by any measurement or comparison.

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Indeed, an atrocity as you say. Are there any stamps on the aft lug?

Cheers,

Raimey
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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
Indeed, an atrocity as you say. Are there any stamps on the aft lug?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


Yes, a big stylish 1 coming out of a circle, denoting best export quality to Simpson in the United States, on the left side.

Yay!!!

And then, there is a triangle with a TW over a 1 on top of the aft lug.

Whaddat?

Last edited by 992B; 03/30/18 01:56 PM.
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