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There was a company in California about thirty years ago which sold nothing but parts to hop up inline 6 cyl. Chevys. their slogan was "6 = 8". I can't remember their name for the life of me.


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Originally Posted By: Stan
There was a company in California about thirty years ago which sold nothing but parts to hop up inline 6 cyl. Chevys. their slogan was "6 = 8". I can't remember their name for the life of me.



Clifford Performance

http://www.cliffordperformance.net

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Marc beat me.

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Guess I'm just a little different but I never really let the size hole in the barrel determine the amount of Fun I was having. I shot for several seasons with a pre 1900 J P Clabrough 12 ga Damascus using 1 oz loads. This gun had 28" barrels with ¼ choke in both barrels. I killed quail, rabbit & woodcock with this gun. I simply can't imagine any more fun than I had with that gun. I have just always believed in using a tool which I felt was best suited for the job at hand. I have just never had a desire for a 28 which weighed much over 5 lbs nor a .410 much over 4 lbs. If I am going to carry a gun weighing 6 lbs or more I simply don't want it to be smaller than a 20.

As to recoil I was never particularly recoil shy. I have shot a 6¼ lb 20 gauge with full factory 3" mags with 1¼ oz oz shot with no problem. Using the old 96:1 ratio of gun weight to shot charge 1 0z needs a 6 lb gun. thus 3/4 oz can be fired with comfort from a 4½ lb gun but 1¼ oz of shot would need a 7½ lb gun. I have exceed these on many occasions. The 3/4 oz load I mentioned shooting from a 4lb 2oz single did kick harder than a 3¼ DE-1 1/8 oz load but the 12 was a 7+ lb Parker Trojan which I was using at the time (probably close to 7½ lb). The kick from the 28 did not bother me but was more than the 12 because of the weight difference. I had just put that in to point out that recoil is not Gauge specific but load VS gun weight specific. If you fire 1 oz of shot from a 6 lb gun at similar velocities it really doesn't matter what the gauge is its going to "Kick" about the same. A smaller hole is not going to automatically reduce kick.

I have no problem with anyone who uses a small gun within its limits, which I truly believe that both of you do. I guess I have just been somewhat prejudiced by so many who try to make out like they are some kind of "Super Sportsman" by taking a small bore out of its class & Bad Mouthing those of us who use a larger gauge. These seem to be the ones I have mostly encountered personally. I have always enjoyed the time I have had to go afield & while the most of my hunting did not call for heavy loads I didn't use them. I have fired many 1 oz loads from 20, 16 & 12 gauge guns. Heaviest I ever shot from a 28 was 3/4 oz & truly have no desire to use more from that size gun.

When loading black powder the old timers were pretty well limited by case capacity as to the max load they could use. I have a tendency to follow those loads for my own use. Thus if I am going to exceed 3/4 oz I want to go up to a twenty & if I "Need" 1¼ oz I truly prefer the 12 over magnamizing either a 20 or 16. Although I do not have one I think that 1½ oz would be ideal for a Light 10. My only 10 is a 10 lb circa 1889 Lefever.

Taking 1¼ oz in a 12 then loads with similar shot column lengths in the various gauges are .410=3/8 oz, 28=.7 oz, 20=7/8 oz, 16=1+ oz, &
10=1 7/16- . While I realize all these loads have been exceeded with generally good results I find the smaller bore to be loaded heavier in relation to bore capacity than the larger ones. I like to keep the shot column short & find this to be generally speaking going in the wrong direction. I much prefer to load Down a larger gauge than to Load Up a small one.

Sort of like if I had 1,000 acres of crop to get planted I would much prefer a 200 HP tractor than a 20 HP one. If on the other hand I were only going to plant 10 acres I would prefer the 20 HP. As I said I like a match, to me the small gauges are for small game at short range. I simply do not feel the need to make 12 or 16 out of the 28 or .410 when the larger guns are much more readily available at more economical prices for both the guns & loads. As I said just presenting the "Flip" side of the coin.

Last edited by 2-piper; 03/31/18 10:58 AM.

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All very valid points, Miller. Well......... maybe a little bit of a stretch with the 200hp vs. 20 hp comparison. You cannot get 1000 acres planted on time with a 20 hp tractor, whereas the .410 will run down a dove and kill him just as fast as a 12. But, I know exactly what you meant ...........just funnin' a little. smile

Clifford Performance is the name. I remember it, now. Thanks Marc Ret.

That L6 is pretty, Chuck.

SRH


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Originally Posted By: Researcher
As I posted earlier here in North America for the first three decades of the 20th Century the factory 28-gauge loads were 5/8 ounce whether put up in the 2 1/2 inch or 2 7/8 inch case.





Western Cartridge Co. introduced their Super-X, high velocity, progressive burning powder, 3/4 ounce 28-gauge load in early 1932.



Ithaca Gun Co. chambered their NID 28-gauge doubles, that reappeared in their 1932 catalogs, for this 2 7/8 inch shell,



as did Winchester when they introduced their Model 12 pump in 28-gauge in 1937. Just before WW-II our ammunition companies began offering a 3/4 ounce 28-gauge skeet load put up in a 2 3/4 inch case. Shortly after WW-II our ammunition companies did away with the 2 1/2 and 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge hulls and from then on all 28-gauge loads have been put up in 2 3/4 inch cases.


Nice chronology there! My 1940 Shooters Bible shows a mixture of all 3 lengths for the 28ga. Must've been about the time those new skeet loads appeared.

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The first Shotgun I ever fired in my life was that little 4 lb 2 oz single 28 gauge I mentioned. I have no idea what length the shells were, the gun belonged to an Uncle (Married to my Mother's sister) & I simply used the shells he provided. Later when I became much more interested in Shotguns in the Mid Fifties all available (To Me) literature specified the Standard hull length of the 28 as being 2 7/8 inch. I guess some of them simply had not caught up with the change or perhaps the Field loaded Express/SuperX shells were still using the longer hull. I had not realized the change had come so early.


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To each his own, but I've never understood why someone would want to shoot a 1 oz. load in a 28 ga. If you need 1 oz of shot, it performs much better in a 20, 16, or 12 gauge. Patterns with a 1 oz. load in a 28 gauge are not as efficient as the 3/4 oz. as pattern studies have proven. The recoil is staggering as well.

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Originally Posted By: GaryW
To each his own, but I've never understood why someone would want to shoot a 1 oz. load in a 28 ga. If you need 1 oz of shot, it performs much better in a 20, 16, or 12 gauge. Patterns with a 1 oz. load in a 28 gauge are not as efficient as the 3/4 oz. as pattern studies have proven. The recoil is staggering as well.


I have created my own "pattern studies" with all loads for the 28 gauge and found that the 1 oz load is much better, with even patterns and far less large holes with the 1oz (350 count of #7.5 shot) vs 3/4 oz (262 count of #7.5 shot). Not sure what you mean by "staggering recoil", but I would never use it when referring to the 28 gauge. When I test pattern all loads, I can't tell any difference in recoil, one from another. The difference is the pattern on paper. I have gone on barn yard pigeon hunts and have fired up to 4 1/2 boxes of 1 oz loads in just over an hour and the last thing I would remember would be recoil. If you think a 28 gauge is staggering, try shooting a couple dozen 3 1/2" turkey loads out of a 12 gauge on the patterning bench, and then maybe your term staggering may fit the feeling.

Last edited by SxS Only; 04/01/18 12:32 AM.
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